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Grant-Ferris engine

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rbprice
Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 08:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have just gotten a two cylinder Grant & Ferris engine made in Troy, NY ca 1901. The only reference that I have been able to find so far is in Wendel's on page 212. Mine looks just like the picture except the hand holes in the base are rectangular brass plates rather than round. It has a helical gear set that drives a cam shaft for the two exhaust valves and the intake valves are spring loaded and vacuum actuated.

It is missing a water pump, its external cooling plumbing and its pistons and connecting rods so it is a real project engine.

It seems to be a marine engine since it has lots of brass parts but maybe not. See Wendel's comments about that.

Does anyone have any other info regarding this very old, very interesting engine?

Thanks
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Tom Stranko
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 02:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a one cylinder Grant & (I think) Ferris
that I believe was built in Ithaca, NY. I have a
Xerox of an advert showing my engine exactly. It has an odd 45 degree mixer port as I recall (sorry about the weak memory, I have the engine in storage away from home for years) and the water pump is a separate unit mounted horizontally to the back tab of the crankcase and
operated by an eccentric. I'll have to run down and get some pictures. It is a headless engine with a spoked flywheel.
Tom
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richarddurgee
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 05:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

R.B.

Stan Grayson's book 'Old marine engines" in appendix lists Grant -Ferris Co. Troy N.Y. trade name : "BRASS JACKET".
Also lists Howard Motor Co Philadelphia, Pa.trade name : "HOWARD"
These two co,s.seem to have had mingling of engine
interests ? And so far it seems that Howard was the older co. in the marine business?
>
1902 ad lists 2 & 4 cycle engs, the tag on eng illustrated reads Howard Motor co.on top part of it and Grant-Ferris on lower ?


Howard


>
By 1906 only Howard is on ads
this one is 1908, and by 1913 no trace of either Co. I'll keep looking !!


Howard1908
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richarddurgee
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 05:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tom,

A picture of your engine and also of the tag would be much appreciated if possible.
These were only made for a few years and not to many around . I also have a warehouse away from house with engs in it I haven't seen in years,understand problem of getting to them ??
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rbprice
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 08:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard -

The first ad has Howard in Troy and Grant-Ferris in Green Island just across the Hudson River from Troy. The second ad has Howard in Yonkers, NY. And the nameplates on the engine do have Howard on top and Grant-Ferris on the bottom.

Tom - could you make a copy of the advertisement you have and send it to me to see if the engines are similar?

Thanks

Bob
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richarddurgee
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 10:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

R.B.
First ad has Grant=Ferris in Troy N.Y. on Green Island Street.
Under Utilities in column to left, click on keyword search and type in HOWARD. an ad with 4 cycle T head and a poem .. posted in 2002.
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Tom Stranko
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I will get pictures and copy the Xerox ad ASAP.
I do remember that there is no name tag on the engine and it was quite a moment when I came up with the ad Xerox showing my engine.
Tom
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rbprice
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 07:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard - what is the date of the ad for the Howard with the Yonkers address? The Tee head design may be the Howard design feature altho that engine seems to have both intake and exhaust push-rod actuated.

The G-F has spring loaded intake valves and push-rod exhaust valves.

Cheers

Bob
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Tom Stranko
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 08:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I managed to get some half-a--ed pictures of the engine which really seems to be a THOMAS &
GRANT according to the Tompkins county historical society (as of 1986)
They state that the firm started as "Angel & Fairbanks, gas engine manufacturers and machinists" in 1903-04.
Fairbanks-Grant was listed in 1905-06. F.W. Grant"motor boats and engines" was listed in 1907-08. Thomas & Grant 1909-10. All these companies hav connection with Frank W. Grant.
Wonder what,if any , the connection is. Tom
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Tom Stranko
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 08:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ad
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Tom Stranko
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 08:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

rear
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Tom Stranko
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

pump
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Tom Stranko
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 08:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

front
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Tom Stranko
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 08:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I should tell you that the "museum" where I got the engine did all the fancy paint work. They also cobbed up an ignition system to replace the missing vertical shaft timer.
The guy said they found it out on the trash heap one spring clean-up day in downtown Ithaca, NY.
Tom
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richarddurgee
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 11:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

R.B.
The T-head Howard ad is 1906.
>
Howard was an engine mfgr and would take orders for custom or special engines, they also
made boat racing engs to order. Grant - Ferris seemed to be involved with Howard from 1901-1904 or 05. like many of these co's at the time the potential of the automobile was a driving force to many of these business men and it broke most of them. I research these co's from info in marine publications primarily, and find that it doesn,t give the whole picture of these eng mfgrs.
When we discussed The Gray Co.I have no info on their stationary eng works or their automotive eng
endeavors therefore a limited overall view of the big picture of the company during these times.
>
Grant -ferris was automobile oriented and I believe that the engine you have is probably a howard made eng for that purpose, would be interesting to find out more about it !!
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keith
Senior Member
Username: keith

Post Number: 163
Registered: 02-2002


Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 09:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tom
I was bored this evening and was looking thru old post and came across your post about Fairbanks-Grant. I would be interested in more info on this company. I have a 18' Fairbanks-Grant Launch which has a Boat Plate but no engine. Based on Wendels and other ads, I had assumed it was 1905 vintage, but your info indicates it could only be 1905 or 06. It would be greatly appreciated, if I could find the correct engine for this launch.
Keith
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 578
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 01:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1909


gf
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3649
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 - 11:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*

1903

Lots of Brass to polish


gf1
gf2




*
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3650
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 - 09:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*

1902-03


gf




*
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rbprice
Senior Member
Username: rbprice

Post Number: 522
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 - 09:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An engine much like the one in the picture sits in the hallway just outside my office.
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3652
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 - 09:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*

R.B.

Any photos available ?
Does it have a name plate ?


*
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rbprice
Senior Member
Username: rbprice

Post Number: 523
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2015 - 08:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Give me a couple of days and I will post some pictures. It is missing both con rods and pistons, has a flywheel with a wooden piece attached to the front face, has one of its brass crankcase covers missing and is very clearly a Howard Engine since the front and rear tags state that. It may have started its life as an auto engine since it has an extended crankshaft on both ends.

Grant-Ferris was a dealer in Troy, NY. Howards were made in, I think, Poughkeepsie, NY but I have to find my Howard catalog to confirm that.

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