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Emerson Engine Company Inc.

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keith
Senior Member
Username: keith

Post Number: 145
Registered: 02-2002


Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 01:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I recently picked up a 6 cylinder Emerson engine. It appears in overall excellant shape. There are two items that need attention. The first being the ignition. It has a "New York Coil" distributor that has points. The cap is broken, but I can fix that. It is also missing the rotor. My real question is: What type of coil would have worked with this distributor and does anyone have parts or info? The engine is 1911 vintage.

Emerson
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 491
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 12:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keith

Your distributor points plate looks just like the one on my 2 cyl Dunn. Palmers I believe used same on a few models also. To research it look for " Rhoades Unit Spark System"
1911 ad

R
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 492
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 01:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

from archives

DR
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keith
Senior Member
Username: keith

Post Number: 146
Registered: 02-2002


Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 07:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Richard
Do you have the coil box with your Dunn? Maybe Dick Day will have additional info if Palmer used the setup.
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 493
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 08:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Need a dist cap for mine, haven't found one yet,
also don't know what coil goes to it ?

This is 1913 Emerson ad- hope its readable ??

E1

E2
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 494
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 08:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ad says induction coil on eng - I cant see it ??
i'll keep looking !

Wow an ad that tells color -Royal Blue Enamel-
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richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 278
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 08:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess the critical points, non pun intended are. Are the points normally open or normally closed? If normally open then any T buzz coil would work. If normally closed then a capacitor and modern ignition coil would work. Best I can off at the moment.
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keith
Senior Member
Username: keith

Post Number: 147
Registered: 02-2002


Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 10:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dick I will check as to the points being normally open or closed. I think it is normally closed. Richard, I can vouch for the paint color.
Do you have the rotor?
Emerson
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 496
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 11:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looked at mine its normally open, cam lobes ( 2 )
for my 2 cyl dunn are rods about the size of standard welding rod. rotor has chip out of it and metal contact on top is missing ? looking close there are some minor differences from Emerson plate ?



This may confuse matters, but I also have a 4 cyl
Rhoades Unit that is different, it is normally open as well but it has spring loaded pawls that snap the points closed for an instant very much like Atwater-kent does, this would require a different coil ? no wonder this was a short lived Co. seems nothing was standard with them ??



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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 497
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 11:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

First two images


R1

R1rotor
>
>
>
Second two images

R2

R22
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jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos

Post Number: 209
Registered: 07-2002
Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 09:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keith, looks to me like you can use it as breaker points or a buzz coil, the deciding factor would be the rotor. Buzz coils fire when the points close, breaker points when they open. The rotor will have to be timed to the lugs on the cap when firing. If just using it for a slow running show motor I would use the buzz coil, usually easier starting and more forgiving. The buzz coil would have trouble keeping up with a 6 cylinder at higher speeds.
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keith
Senior Member
Username: keith

Post Number: 148
Registered: 02-2002


Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 02:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I checked the Emerson. The points are normally open. I have been told that the operating RPM was around 1500. I'm pretty dumb when it comes to electronics, but if I added a capacitor, could I just run a automotive coil. I need to make a rotor.
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richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 281
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 06:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The typical modern coil depends on a relativly high current flow and I don't know if the points would be closed long enough for the coil to operate properly. The Buzz coil is the best route in my opinion. You could try a coil like the one designed for the Atwater Kent system but I don't know if you happened to wind up with the points closed for a long time if it would burn out the AW coil. It is designed for points open and only milliseconds closure. It is designed so it cannot likely end up with the points closed hence a set of dry cell batteries would last a whole season. Thinking of it in crude terms the open points system is a voltage related system and the closed points system is a current related system. I would go with the buzz coil myself.
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thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas

Post Number: 187
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 07:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keith,
I bet the 1500 RPM number was the at rated power.
For just an idle I would think 300 RPM would be more like it. It's also just my 2 cents worth but I believe that distributor was made on the "Delco" design; it would use a single coil
and capacitor (no buzz). Look at the big spring
keeping the point lever up against the cam (and thus the points open). This is just like any pre
electronic ignition car engine. (my opinion )
Tom
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jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos

Post Number: 210
Registered: 07-2002
Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 08:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keith, I think the coil and condensor would work fine. You'll have to time the rotor to fire in the center of the lug when the ponts are opening. If it's a reversable engine, split the difference and center it.

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