Home | Classifieds | History | Technical | Links | Store | About Us | Email
Topics Topics Edit Profile Profile Help/Instructions Help Member List Register  
Search Last 1|3|7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  

Please help identify this engine

Old Marine Engine » Unknown Engines - post here with photos » Please help identify this engine « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bryon Bandemer
New member
Username: wydiver

Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 08:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is my first marine engine..Need to know what it is and year.
thanks alot
Bryon



2

3

4
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 2149
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 07:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*
Could you post a good photo of the intake manifold side of this engine ?

*
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver

Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 09:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I will try to get a picture soon.
I know it has a Kingston carb if that makes a difference.
thanks alot for all the help
Bryon
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver

Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Saturday, September 05, 2009 - 08:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Finally got some more pictures of the carb side.
Thanks for all the help.
Bryon

1

4

3
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver

Post Number: 6
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 08:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The intake/exhaust/water jacket are all in one.
Here are some pictures of the pistons. I have sandblasted it all and found no name or numbers.
thanks again
bryon

p1

p2
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom Stranko
Senior Member
Username: thomas

Post Number: 340
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 10:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I feel bad that I have NO idea what that engine is. I bet Richard D also feels bad. What company made the water pump? I assume there is something stamped or cast on the pump somewhere? Is it possible it was a fire pumper engine with all that aluminum (for light weight?) I have to say I have not seen an older 2 cycle with a port in the piston. Is the Kingston 5 ball nickel plated?
It matches the intake manifold..looks like it's almost aluminum also. IT'S NICE
Tom
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 2176
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 11:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*
I have spent some time trying to ID this engine, the slotted piston was used by Erd on their Engines not sure what others , Erd made many different eng designs.
No ID on this one yet, it will go into my unknown engine file.
Many of my 65+ friends complain of waking up in the middle of the night can't go back to sleep and nothing to do !
I wake up and quite undisturbed research things like this until the sun comes up and then take a look at the to do list-- not as enthused about the last option as I am the first !

**
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver

Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 07:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks alot for checking. I would like to know what it is, but I will get it running anyhow..Can't wait to hear it purr. I 99% positive its two stroke is that correct? I havent gone through the carb yet.
The Carb says kingston...patent applied for.
thanks again
bryon
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver

Post Number: 11
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 10:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More info. I found one number on the carb 176148. It's the only number on the whole engine. Kingston patent applied for. The pistons have 3 rings.. the bottom rings are gone...is this critical to get to run? and where would I find replacements? I would assume that there is a place to send the whole piston and get new rings made.
Thanks again.. I hope the carb number will help date this.
Bryon
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver

Post Number: 13
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 09:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEOjINMsyeQ
Dont know what it is but got her running. Now I'm stuck...must have another marine engine. Thanks for all the help.
Bryon
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom Stranko
Senior Member
Username: thomas

Post Number: 343
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 04:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Byron, It looks (and sounds) great running.
T
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 1043
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 07:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Keith Billet
Senior Member
Username: keith

Post Number: 260
Registered: 02-2002


Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 10:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good job Bryon. You Get-er-done.
Keith
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 194
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 09:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bryon,

I use to be involved with radio controlled models of all kinds for about 20 years and some of the two cycle model engines had pistons with slots or holes in them. I believe it was called snurl porting not sure if this is the correct spelling. Anyways this snurl porting improved the top end RPM for a much faster engine. Your engine maybe a racing engine. That would also explain the aluminum crankcase, aluminum intake & exhaust manifold. Light weight to help keep the boat on top of the water for speed. I do know some of the old marine engines companies made special engines for speed boats. Good to see another engine brought back to life and running. Keep up the good work.

P.S. If I remember correctly the slot in the piston was said to some how increase the speed in which the fuel was delivered into the combustion chamber or the amount of fuel. It's been a long time ago when I did the models so my memory is not that good.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 195
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 10:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was just doing a little reading on the net. It should be spelled (Schnuerle). The main difference between regular two cycle porting and schnuerle porting is the angle of the ports. Regular ports are normally 90 degrees to the cylinder. Schnuerle ports are angled up on a 45 degrees or more. This allows the fuel to be directed straight into the combustion chamber and there would be no need for a deflector on top of the piston. So maybe the slot in the piston was for something else. Anyone else out there knowledgeable about this topic?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 1127
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 11:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John,

The common term is loop scavenged. There is a ton of info on the net under that subject including lots of cross reference to Schnuerle
Almost all currnet 2 stroke engines are now loopers

Hope this helps
Ernie
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 196
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 06:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ernie,

I was hoping someone might know exactly what the slots in the pistons were for? I do not know if it has anything to do with the loop scavenging? I pretty sure it has to do with performance, more top end RPM. Just trying to figure out if this is a speed boat engine for back in the day?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 1128
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 08:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John,
The slots in the pistons actually open up the bottom of the transfer ports. Most transfer ports go directly to the crankcase on the bottom end. Some manufacturers chose to route the bottom of the transfer port back into the cylinder as a port that the slot in the piston covered and uncovered. why??? Maybe the designer thought they could sort of control intake timing??? However that is really controlled by the piston uncovering the top of the transfer passage. I don't think it had anything to do with the engine being a looper or not.
Early small Lockwood Ash had piston slots Erd I think and many others.
To me it seems it only made the casting cores more complex. Maybe that is why most mfrs didn't do it. It also seems that it would be an additional restriction from the crankcse to the transfer passage. On high speed 2 strokes the transfer passage opening in the crankcase is Always positioned so crankshaft revolution helps push fuel and air into the transfer passage. That being the case just about 100 percent of all outboard motors run clockwise viewed from the flywheel. So just about 100 percent of all outboard motors have the transfer port on the starboard side.
How is that for ramblin on???
You asked
Hope this helps
Ernie
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 197
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 11:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ernie,
Thanks for explaining this for me. I guess if a person was mixing two cycle oil with their fuel the slotted piston might help to better lubricate the upper con-rod and wrist pin. If I remember correctly the model engines that had schnurele porting (Loop Scavenged) also had a hole or slot in the piston on the intake side. Guess I will have to go and dig up one of my old model engines and take it apart to find out. That's just one of the things I like about this hobby, you never stop learning. Anyways maybe Bryon's engine is not for racing.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

J.B. Castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos

Post Number: 492
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 09:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It looks like the slot on this engine might be for intake timing into the crankcase. It's a three port motor, if you look at the cylinder from the rear the transfer ports are on the other side, these slots open the carb to the crankcase at the top of the stroke. Looking again the slot is on the deflector side, Ernie's got it right
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver

Post Number: 16
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 03:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am sorry I havent checked this lately..I have been working on my hit and miss engines and have neglected this website. I am glad for the new information on this engine. Maybe someday we will figure this out.
Thanks
Bryon
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver

Post Number: 17
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Saturday, December 19, 2009 - 07:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was thinking about the ports in the pistons...If I understand the previous posts it kind of seems that the pistons might be 180 out..should the slots be on the intake side or am I just crazy?
Thanks
Bryon
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 1134
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Saturday, December 19, 2009 - 08:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If it runs they are on the correct side.
Also from looking at your pics they most likely are the opening for the bottom of the transfer port.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 199
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 19, 2009 - 05:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bryon, when you took the engine apart do you remember which side of the cylinder the transfer ports were on looking at the engine from the front or flywheel side?

As I think Ernie & JB have already stated that the transfer ports are on the opposite side from the intake manifold. Transfer ports are on the same side as the deflector and slot or port on the piston.

Ernie, I think you are correct about the piston slot opening for the bottom of the transfer port. Because the piston would have to be down in order to push fuel up through the transfer port. Correct?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bryon Bandemer
Member
Username: wydiver

Post Number: 18
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Monday, January 04, 2010 - 08:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I never removed the pistons, so the ports in the pistons on the opposite side from the intake manifold.
Thanks
bryon

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a public posting area. Enter your username and password if you have an account. Otherwise, enter your full name as your username and leave the password blank. Your e-mail address is optional.
Password:
E-mail:
Options: Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Administration Administration Log Out Log Out   Previous Page Previous Page Next Page Next Page

Home | Classifieds | History | Technical | Links | Store | About Us | Email
&copy 2005 OldMarineEngine.com, P.O. Box 188, Forest Dale, VT 05745-0188 • Phone: 802-247-4864 • All rights reserved.
   Marine Engine Seloc Repair Manual Lookup Tool

marine gas engine repair and restoration