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putty
New member
Username: putty
Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2022
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2022 - 07:47 am: | 
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Howdy, recently I came across a Stationary Simplex 5hp for sale. I made contact with the seller and he gave me the History of it which goes like this.
Back in the 1960's he was at the Sydney Agricultural Show with his Dad who spotted the Simplex and made inquiries as to buying one, the salesman said he could order one but the old boy explained he was from Qld some 1000 miles away and was leaving early next day and would like to take the one in front of him, cash payment. Well money talks and bs walks, so they loaded it up and away they went.
Arriving back home the motor was unloaded and put in the shed and there it sat for the next 60 years, only occasionally fired up to see if it still ran. The old fella passed on and the son kept tradition and maintained from what I could see, a collection of stationary machines some 5ft high that he takes to Show days to demonstrate. he tells me the Simplex has never been put to work and is as new. We spent quite a while talking and tells me I should check the valve stems and remove the head before I try to start/turn it over just to make sure all is good. The added bonus is the SS head studs and chromed carby, I've checked the carb internals and all is like new, even the float valve. There are no ID numbers on the plates, only Simplex moulded on the head.
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putty
Member
Username: putty
Post Number: 4
Registered: 02-2022
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2022 - 08:49 am: |
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I'm at a bit of a dilemma, I have a 16ft Bondwood that has a twin Blaxland installed but one of the barrels is knackered, I also have another twin Blaxland that I'm rebuilding and will probably rob the 1st motor of its good barrel for the rebuild. But, I'm leaning towards putting the Simplex in my boat for a few reasons. 1/ being that Single cylinder putt putt sound I would prefer, and 2/ its a brand new donk and I love 4 stroke motors, but I do want a reverse gearbox of which I have a Fisherman (Clae?) G/Box that's beefy as, so somehow maybs I can attach it or use the Blaxland G/B but that should really stay with the twin. The simplex has a Fat meaty flywheel and I'm thinking of getting a couple of V belt grooves put in it so I can run a jabsco for a heat exchanger unit I want to adapt and one for the Dinostart so I can have power available. She sits on a 6m Tandem trailer now. Its all on the drawing board at the moment so any input is welcome.
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kingfisher
Advanced Member
Username: kingfisher
Post Number: 42
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2022 - 07:40 pm: |
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I prefer a Simplex over a Blaxland any day. They seem smoother, easier to start and don't suffer the cracked pots as commonly. But then I'm biased as I run a 6/7 Simplex in 2 putt putts. Both have a Dynastart running off the flywheel. I've not seen a Simplex without a FNR gearbox. I'm guessing it was made for stationary use rather than marine. If you can adapt a gearbox it should be fine. Below is a picture I came across a few years ago of a regular Simplex water pump converted to a twin. I imagine something like this would work for a heat exchanger also.
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putty
Member
Username: putty
Post Number: 6
Registered: 02-2022
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2022 - 10:58 pm: |
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Thanks kingfisher,
the twin pump is a clever idea, might be a bit beyond my scope and parts to make, but given some thought and time, who knows.
Are your Dynastart's mounted as per normal, with a mounting plate attached to the head studs. Any pics of your Motors?
Here is an original Simplex Island FNR Gbox, pretty much non existing these days, but if anyone has one to sell...
Here is the Beast I have, it was attached to a 6 cylinder motor, its heavy and probably overkill for the Simplex.
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putty
Member
Username: putty
Post Number: 7
Registered: 02-2022
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2022 - 12:16 am: |
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I have a Simplex copper head gasket hand made by a 92 y/o Gent. The bloke I bought the Simplex from told me not to use coolant for some reason about the copper I'm not remembering why atm, so I intend to use a solution of water-soluble machining/cutting oil. Anyone know what psi I should torque the head down to, I'm thinking around 65/70 psi?
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kingfisher
Advanced Member
Username: kingfisher
Post Number: 43
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2022 - 08:15 pm: |
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There has been one of those Simplex (or Hardman) gearboxes advertised intermittently on Ebay over the last year. It might be worth saving some searches in case it comes up again.
I can't comment on the copper gasket with coolant. The gasket Simplex provide these days is a thick plastic like material.
Do you know that you can still buy Simplex stuff? Parts, gaskets (not always a good fit), right up to a complete engine I believe. Simplex is a division of Hardman & Hall in Sydney 02 9624 6704. They have always been very helpful. They have reprint manuals too which are useful.
As best as I understand it the marine engine was made as a 5hp version originally and then a 6/7hp version. The 5hp I think had a water outlet in the centre of the head. Yours doesn't seem to have this so I wonder if in fact it is the 6/7? It would be worth knowing if ordering parts from Simplex - I don't know how much is interchangeable.
Head bolts are 50 pound - start from the centre and work towards the ends.
That's a very beefy dynastart. Is it 12v? I have one similar (from a Morris maybe?) but it's 6v.
The bronze dynastart bracket in the photos is original, the stainless one was copied from it.
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narrabay2
Senior Member
Username: narrabay2
Post Number: 241
Registered: 10-2019
| | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2022 - 11:23 pm: |
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Nice stuff!
You dont need Vee grooves on the flywheel vee belts can ride on the flat. (and cutting grooves might weaken it too) And unless you have a huge pulley on the Jabsco, it may spin too fast anyway. I added a Jabsco to my YT-1, it's run off the back of a starter-generator which runs two belts on the outside of the flywheel. That way I get an electric starter, plus a pump, and it might even make a little electricity for the battery but not sure on that. It does clutter things a bit but I really needed the electric start.
Pics on here:
http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/4/422866.html
Here's a (the) gasket source I got from another member here:
https://gasketstogo.com/ |
putty
Member
Username: putty
Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2022
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2022 - 04:43 am: |
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So Iv'e ripped the Head off along with the Block, I needed to know the condition of the motor. I'm happy to say everything is looking pretty good, real good even, as far as mechanicals go. The water jackets were a bit rusty looking and when I peered down the bottom there I spied a hole, OH No!! thought I was done for until I poked it with a screwdriver and it fell away, a crust had formed from past fluids now evaporated so I scratched away and it cleaned up nicely, but I thought I would give it the old HCL acid bath anyway, I put the head back on the block, taped the water outlet to exhaust and put the muffler back on to hold it, then put the inspection plates on and laid it on it's back and topped it up with acid thru the water inlet (inlet cover removed) and left it to gurgle and bubble for 18 hrs, the next morning a foamy sponge had grown out of the inlet, it certainly had been cooking, anyway flushed it out with water and Bob's your uncle, I dried it all up with a heat gun, was able to push the block down on the lifters to open the valves and put the heat in thru the ports up past the valves to make sure no moisture left on the seats.
Dont know what voltage the Dyna is, I'll have to get ole sparky mate to check it for me, I'll give Hardman a call, I read a few months ago they were closing simplex down, could be porky pies but I'll find out.
Could be a 6/7 hp its 3:3/4" diameter piston with 4" stroke.
I think the water pump I have differs from what I see on others, maybs defines its age?
The Nuts that hold the block to the crankcase are an oddball size, in between 1/2" n 9/16s, am I right thinking they are 1/4 Whitworth, bloody hard finding a spanner for that.
Cheers Narrabay for the info on the belts and pulley size, I think that little jabco pump would be spinning like mad, might see about a x2 pulley on Dyna.
Steady as she goes.
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kingfisher
Advanced Member
Username: kingfisher
Post Number: 44
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2022 - 06:13 pm: |
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I haven't seen that water pump design - a lot more compact. That'll be a pity if Simplex closes, but no surprise I guess. |
klanger
Senior Member
Username: klanger
Post Number: 143
Registered: 03-2012
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2022 - 05:39 am: |
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Great engine, what�s the red coating on the studs?
Kev |
putty
Member
Username: putty
Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2022
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2022 - 07:32 am: |
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@Kingfisher, are the 4 head studs holding the dyna bracket longer than the other 3, did you replace them, looks like the head is 1st torqued down then put the bracket on and extra nut.
I tried ringing Hardman/Hall 3x, it rings for 10 seconds then goes silent, 10 secs later disconnect. 
I'm going to tiny file a 13mm ring spanner out to 13.34mm, that should fit the block nuts=1/4 whitworth=0.525"=5/16bsf.
I forgot to mention that when I scraped all the rusty crust I forgot to tip it upside down and shake out the loose stuff, it was getting late and by the time I sealed the block up and as soon as I poured the acid in I remembered, damn, to late, probably is why it foamed up so much because there wasn't much that came out when I hosed it next day, must of got eaten up by the acid.
Think I'll open the water pump just to see what is.
@Klanger, I'm guessing it's an oxide paint, zinc,? maybs to protect the metal from heat fatigue causing corrosion, prolly put there from factory new. my 2cents. |
putty
Member
Username: putty
Post Number: 10
Registered: 02-2022
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2022 - 09:01 am: |
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putty
Member
Username: putty
Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2022
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2022 - 09:11 am: |
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This motor looks to be built tough, there's some staining on the cam lobes from where the lifters sat, probably for a number of years, I'll give then a little polish. Love the Phat rings.
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kingfisher
Advanced Member
Username: kingfisher
Post Number: 45
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2022 - 06:21 pm: |
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New studs, yes. Longer studs for the dynastart bracket, yes. Torqued 1st, bracket 2nd, yes. I bought all new studs from Rocket Industries - just cos they have a user friendly website. |
putty
Member
Username: putty
Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2022
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2022 - 07:55 pm: |
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Would you happen to remember the size/part no:/length/thread of the longer studs? any info would be appreciated. Cheers. |
kingfisher
Advanced Member
Username: kingfisher
Post Number: 46
Registered: 01-2013
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2022 - 09:30 pm: |
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Sorry, all I recall is UNC at one end and UNF at the other. I've just gotten off the phone with GEARCO. That's the trading name now for what we knew as Hardman & Hall or Simplex. Their number is 02 9838 8934. They no longer offer any maintenance or repair work but still have plenty of Simplex parts and are very happy to supply. I might suggest you get one of their manuals which shows all the parts by name and number. $25 when I got one some years ago. |
putty
Member
Username: putty
Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2022
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2022 - 12:11 am: |
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Thanks for the tip on UNC/UNF, lucky my next door neighbor works at a Bolt selling store, I'll be able to run it by him for answers, I'll post the info for them when I nail it.
Good work on chasing up the Simplex contact, just been on the tellingbone to Jeff Hall at Gearco, going to send them an email at gearcoatbigponddotcom, we discussed the water pump which goes to say it is the model b4 the current one, he only has manuals for those with a gearbox, I will find out more via email.
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putty
Member
Username: putty
Post Number: 15
Registered: 02-2022
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2022 - 05:21 am: |
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So the head stud threads are 7/16" UNC that thread into the block and 7/16" UNF thread that the nut goes on to torque the head down, other bolts that hold the inspection and water inlet plates on are 1/4" UNC.
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putty
Member
Username: putty
Post Number: 16
Registered: 02-2022
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2022 - 08:45 am: |
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simplex-manual.pdf
https://pompeismarine.com/new/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/simplex-manual.pdf |
putty
Member
Username: putty
Post Number: 17
Registered: 02-2022
| | Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2022 - 02:59 am: |
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This site being a mine of information that it is, I've happened to find some info that possibly defines further the model engine I have via the piston sizes, mine being 3:3/4" diameter and not 3:7/8" that manuals were alluding me to.
"As I understand it (having restored an early 10/12 recently and looked seriously down the bore of a 5/7 a couple of years ago) the 3 3/4' bore pistons (with rings about 1/4 " wide) from the early 5/7 and 10/12 Simplexs were from A model Fords and since the mid 60s the 3 7/8" bore pistons were from the 179 Holden motors."
From.. http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/1/137376.html
...but might be from T model fords, looking similar.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/822076/841460.html?1519669439 |
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