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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 1954
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 10:33 am: | 
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Early St Lawrence Engines Part V
This is the December 16,2008 List.
ST LAWRENCE ENGINE LIST IV
For what seemed a better description in the manifold column I changed them to TWO/PIECE or ONE/PIECE.
Please comment on any changes its YOUR list.
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barry
Senior Member
Username: barry
Post Number: 103
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 12:48 pm: |
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Here is another 1905/1910. no serial number, twin owned by Daniel Trott, Windsor Ontario, currently powers his 19' launch " Apostle".
Note addition of belt driven combination starter/generator.
Barry
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alcleary
Member
Username: alcleary
Post Number: 13
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 05:59 pm: |
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The question was asked earlier if anyone had an engine in the 3,000 or 4,000 serial number range. A post by "Foxman" in Sept. 27, 2006 states that serial numbers went from about 500 to about 1850 from 1910 to 1917. The numbers then jumped to 5000 and carried on from there. This shows up very clearly in this latest engine list.
Al Cleary |
barry
Senior Member
Username: barry
Post Number: 104
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 01:08 pm: |
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Here are images of St Lawrence serial number 5723 - 3 1/4B x 3 1/2S, owned by Ray Prophet.
Has cast iron piston and by-pass baffles
The engine is fitted with a Witherbee Ignitor Co (WICO) "Improved High Tension Magneto type L1" - number 47456.
The magneto appears to be original factory installation.
Barry
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 1960
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 04:59 pm: |
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5723 # added to the list and photos filed.
It looks as if the cylinder was recast to have the raised square boss to mount the Magneto ?
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barry
Senior Member
Username: barry
Post Number: 105
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 05:58 pm: |
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Richard,
Do you have any information about WICO L1 magnetos.
This is an early reciprocating magneto.
The magneto date may help to date the St Lawrence.
Barry |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 1961
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 09:19 am: |
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I don't have enough info on Wico mags to be able to date this one accurately !
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 1965
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 05:28 pm: |
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St Lawrence Facility 1950
http://dmgrant.wordpress.com/2008/06/24/power-boat-regatta-blockhouse-island/
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billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller
Post Number: 199
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2009 - 03:34 pm: |
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here is one I saw at a show in 2005. I do not know who owned it.
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 1982
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 19, 2009 - 10:39 am: |
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Thanks Bill- Photos filed, engine added to St Lawrence list !
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bgoss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss
Post Number: 90
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 12:03 pm: |
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I just noticed a reference to engine #5007 on another website. I have emailed the gentleman to see if he still has the engine and would like to add it to the list with some photos or info. |
bgoss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss
Post Number: 91
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 02:46 pm: |
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Well, we finally tracked down what I think is a real prize.
This engine originally worked on Georgian Bay not far from our place. Dad knew about the engine years ago and then lost track of it. It took a bit work to follow through 3 or 4 different owners since then, but I think it was worth it to bring it back home.
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#5295
12 HP (4"x4.5")
2 piece rounded manifolds (with brass tag on exhaust manifold)
6 head bolts per cylinder
offset timer and waterpump with worm gear rather than bevel
17.5" flywheel
no name cast into inspection covers
separate subbase
...
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jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 432
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 02:17 pm: |
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Nice find, good looking motor, I didn't realize they made the larger size. Is that copper tube to the front cylinder a water supply? If so, did they leave out the connector between the cylinders? |
bgoss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss
Post Number: 92
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 03:34 pm: |
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You're right on the money, JB. The copper piping goes direct from the pump to the bottom of each cylinder with no connections between the two jugs. Some literature would suggest that they made one size larger than this again with a 4.5" x 5" bore and stroke.
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hamp_phillips
Member
Username: hamp_phillips
Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 04:12 pm: |
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richarddurgee , My St. L. is 6885 and has the following charicteristics:
Single, one piece man., Lever ign. modified for points & auto coil( have all original parts if ever want brush/buzz coil), Modified exhaust for closed loop cooling/keel cooler)
I hope this helps. Hamp |
hamp_phillips
Member
Username: hamp_phillips
Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 04:13 pm: |
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richarddurgee
Also I would like to know the type of engine that is in my member window, how can I find out?
Hamp |
barry
Senior Member
Username: barry
Post Number: 110
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 04:33 pm: |
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Here is an image of Goss engine from St Lawrence 1924/25 catalogue. The serial number matches mid 1920 date and fits Richard‘s list. The crankcase may be aluminum or cast iron. Light weight versions with aluminum lower crankcase, heads, manifolds were offered in the 1911 catalogue. A three cylinder 3 1/2 bore from 1911 time period was posted in St lawrence III and reposted here.
Barry
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philg
Member
Username: philg
Post Number: 22
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 07:18 pm: |
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At Last! A six bolt head two cylinder St Lawrence - Congradulations to the Goss's. By any chance are the heads aluminum? |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2031
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 02:45 pm: |
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Will be out of town until next week-Richard.
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bgoss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss
Post Number: 93
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 07:21 pm: |
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Thanks for the info Barry.
Phil - The base, subbase and heads are not aluminum on this one. Whoever painted it up sure gave it that look though.
The scale of it is quite impressive. We set a little 3hp beside the 12hp to show the scale.
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RonB
Visitor
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 09:26 am: |
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I was wondering if there is any interest in consolidating the St.Lawrence Engine Lists and putting it on the SLE website? This would enable each engine to be directly linked with its own page of photos and additional information. A sample proposal is available at
http://www.stlawrenceengines.ca/registry/registry.html |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2034
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 08:12 am: |
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Blair
Great old engine you posted- it would qualify for the Big twin discussion here ! Thanks- I recorded the serial number on our list and filed the photos. |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2036
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 08:44 am: |
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Hamp Phillips - Post a few photos of the engine in your member window and maybe we can put a name and approx mfg date on it ?
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barry
Senior Member
Username: barry
Post Number: 111
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 27, 2009 - 09:46 am: |
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Am attaching images and information about St Lawrence Unit Power Plant that was offered mid 1920s in two sizes 3 1/2" bore as illustrated, also 4" bore. Images scanned from photos supplied by John Laing taken about 1962. These have an integral transmission and impulse magneto.
Barry
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barry
Senior Member
Username: barry
Post Number: 112
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 27, 2009 - 09:55 am: |
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Here is an image of an engine scanned from a photo suppied by John Laing. It has a six bolt head so is probably 4" bore same as Goss engine.
Barry
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bgoss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss
Post Number: 95
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2009 - 02:13 pm: |
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Barry,
It looks like that Unit Power Plant that you posted photos of doesn't have the magneto that is described in the catalog. Maybe they were made with either ignition to suit the customer?
Do you have a closer view of the transmission? Does it have the St.L name on the top cover plate or are they using someone elses?
Blair |
barry
Senior Member
Username: barry
Post Number: 113
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 07:36 am: |
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Blair,
Looks like a St Lawrence model A transmission, with the housing modified for direct connection to the engine.
Looks like an owner removed the magneto and used the magneto drive to operate a rotary timer.
Barry
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philg
Member
Username: philg
Post Number: 25
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 09:11 pm: |
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Hi Guys, here is another St Lawrence I have here. It is serial #7547 and I am guessing it is from the 1940's. It has 18 mm spark plug threads, the new style water pump, the baffle plate and it appears to have a aluminum piston. This one does have a few unique features: it does have a shebler carb but it's from Flint MI not Indianapolis IN and it has the inscription "No 4" clearly embossed on the head - none of my other St Lawrence engines have this, does anyone know when they started doing that? There is however no St Lawrence embossing on the crank case access covers that is normally there! Also this engine has a small brass piece that acts as a short out to the timer so it can't kick back to the starter - something else none of the others have. |
jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 433
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 09:56 pm: |
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What does the "brass short out" do? If it does actually short out the brush this would cause continuous firing with a buzz coil. It may be just a stop to keep the timer from going too far. |
barry
Senior Member
Username: barry
Post Number: 114
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 10:31 am: |
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The brass piece acts as a switch in the starter solenoid circuit to ensure electric starter will only operate when ignition is retarded, thus avoiding kick back that would mangle the starter bendix. The components look to be owner add on.
Interesting that in all St Lawrence literature prior to the addition of the electric start XA and XB, recommended propellers were left hand. The electric start propellers were right hand to match the starter motor bendix.
Barry |
richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday
Post Number: 720
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 11:58 am: |
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I assumed it was for direct reverse on the spark. |
bgoss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss
Post Number: 105
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 07:10 pm: |
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Here is another one to add to the list, Richard.
s/n 5822, brass tag
one-piece manifold
old-syle waterpump
no baffle plate
lever ignition
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bgoss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss
Post Number: 106
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 07:26 pm: |
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Here is another engine. S/N 7887 posted on this site (no picture or details).
http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/3451/1698.html
"Can you recommend a source for wooden boat plans?
I am looking for plans for a Chesapeake Bay Flat Bottom style boat.
The boat should be 12 to 16 feet long with a beam of 4 to 5 feet.
I have two 2-cycle engines:
The Saint Lawrence Engine Company Limited
Brockville, Ontario Canada
Model XA Serial #7887
Circa 1006, 2 Cycle, 1 1/2 hp "
Blair |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2047
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 06:48 am: |
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Engines added to list and photos filed.
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philg
Advanced Member
Username: philg
Post Number: 32
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2009 - 06:57 pm: |
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Managed to bring home another St Lawrence the other day - it needs a bit of work. It does have one brass tag on it, serial # 5482. |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2122
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 07:14 am: |
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Photo and serial number Filed !
Thanks Phil
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frank_petran
Senior Member
Username: frank_petran
Post Number: 62
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, September 05, 2009 - 06:28 pm: |
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I am contemplating the purchase of a St. Lawrence two cylinder serial #5822. The person who owns it now had not run the engine since he purchased it. As he is not sure of the horsepower what he does know is the stroke which is 3 ½ inches and thinks the bore is about 2 ½ inches. As I am planing on installing it in a launch of about 17 ft. I don’t need a huge amount of horsepower. I have a 3 hp single Gray that I could use but would like a 2 cylinder as it runs smother. Could any one fill me in on what the horsepower is and what the bore is? I haven' able to put the engine into any list. |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2164
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2009 - 02:35 pm: |
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jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos
Post Number: 468
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2009 - 03:34 pm: |
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Richard, is E the flywheel diameter? That's the easiest way to tell a small and large engine at a glance. |
richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee
Post Number: 2165
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2009 - 03:57 pm: |
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bgoss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss
Post Number: 127
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 27, 2009 - 06:48 pm: |
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Richard,
I just got a look at #5817. No pictures yet, but here are some of the details that you can add to the inventory.
Single cylinder
Large brass tag
Old style water pump
One-piece intake/exhaust manifold
Baffle plate
Lever ignition
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