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Simplex vs Blaxland

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kingfisher
Member
Username: kingfisher

Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2013
Posted on Thursday, July 04, 2013 - 08:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am currently restoring a 15' putt putt and the 6/7hp Simplex that came with it. When this is completed I have a 17' putt putt with a Blaxland twin to restore also.
Ultimately I am likely to keep only one boat and that is likely to be the 17 footer.
So for purely selfish reasons I want to put the "best" engine in that boat. So assuming that both engines are in good condition I'm interested in thoughts on which is the better option. I know this is very subjective stuff, but it may be an interesting discussion.
For instance the Simplex has a FNR gearbox - probably an advantage.
But many other attributes are worthy of comparison:
4 stroke vs 2 stroke, weight, availability of spares, twin cylinder vs single, relative power, red vs green
Any and all thoughts and questions appreciated.
Mark
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johnoxley
Senior Member
Username: johnoxley

Post Number: 83
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Thursday, July 04, 2013 - 08:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Suggest that authenticity and heritage is also a consideration. Best engine is the original engine. Boats will have a higher monetary and heritage value with their original engine.
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kingfisher
Member
Username: kingfisher

Post Number: 11
Registered: 01-2013
Posted on Thursday, July 04, 2013 - 09:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Both boats are in very poor condition and require total rebuilding. The only original timber work will be the hull in each case. While the Blaxland came with the 17' hull, it is not it's original engine. The original 4 cylinder auto engine was scrapped by the previous owner and the Blaxland bought for the restoration he was never able to pursue.
Mark
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senojn
Senior Member
Username: senojn

Post Number: 106
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, July 05, 2013 - 04:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good question Mark -
Perhaps they can't be compared ,however.
A few early thoughts.
Balance and vibration -Blaxland
Fuel - 2/stroke dirtier -Simplex
Parts cost -Blaxland
Valves or no valves ?
Sound -Simplex
Colour -Stop and Go
I have both motors but my Airedale Terrier is named Blaxland .
Interested to hear from others .
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miro
Senior Member
Username: miro

Post Number: 703
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Thursday, July 11, 2013 - 10:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From my vantage point ( having a boat WITHOUT FNR and WITH FNR) , I'd always go with the engine with the FNR. It helps a lot when you are returning to the dock or landing.
And more to the point, since you will be doing a lot of wood work restoration on the hull, it will help you answer the question:
At what speed do you want to HIT the dock?

On the boat without the FNR, I have to really pay attention to things like wind direction and speed, wake from other boats ( usually driven by idiots) etc. I don't like the sound of my restored wooden boat crunching into something hard and immovable.

Sure, heritage and authenticity is important , but when you are in a tricky situation, the FNR is much more important. A broken up boat doesn't have much monetary value.

miro
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david_doyle
Member
Username: david_doyle

Post Number: 17
Registered: 03-2013
Posted on Friday, July 12, 2013 - 03:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Based on senojn's breakdown I think I'd be looking for a gear box for the Blaxland.

Miro, can you run a scull oar off the transom of your FNRless boat? I have been using one this summer when I use a direct drive seagull and it has proven very useful.
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qwilkin
Senior Member
Username: qwilkin

Post Number: 81
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Friday, July 12, 2013 - 08:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I would love a FNR for the Blaxland but have searched to no avail . Some say the engine is really not suitable for FNR boxes any comments on that question???? Maybe we could get one built if there is plans or one to copy . Or is there another FNR that would suit . I agree with the comments re coming in to the dock and have found it very awkward but I now shut off early and row in . I like both styles of engines but am rebuilding another blaxland twin so as to replace the one in the boat , it never seems to run sweetly .

Quinton
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johnoxley
Senior Member
Username: johnoxley

Post Number: 84
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Saturday, July 13, 2013 - 06:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nothing is impossible - I have a Blaxland 5/7 with the little island gearbox (Will not part with this). Did this little gearbox up many years ago with new bearings and a shaft. It is going into a Cam Fisher 14' fishing boat. It would be prudent to dismantle and check the gearbox - A pattern for the aluminium casings and lever is possible through Sydney Heritage Fleet. Casting from ??. Gears could be cut from stock by Hardmans at Seven Hills or by Newvale at Blacktown. Others could do the little shafts etc.
What do you think?
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kingfisher
Member
Username: kingfisher

Post Number: 12
Registered: 01-2013
Posted on Saturday, July 13, 2013 - 08:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for all the comments. It seems that the Simplex may be the best choice based on gearbox alone. Chatting to a mate yesterday he suggested the Simplex was smoother and quieter as well - and no need to mix fuel.
If I go down this path I'll end up with the Blaxland twin in the 15 footer. I wonder if this will be over powered and cause any problems?
Mark
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qwilkin
Senior Member
Username: qwilkin

Post Number: 82
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Saturday, July 13, 2013 - 08:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John , thanks for the information I have never heard of a (little island gearbox ???) was that what the Blaxland make was called ???
it certainly sounds an interesting project . I wonder if any other members have parts we could also copy and get an idea of a cost . If any other Blaxland users were interested it would certainly keep the cost down . Unfortunately I am not an engineer so would have to get all the work done by others . I wonder if Mr Jacobs of Blaxland spares could help us . What do you think ??
Quinton
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johnoxley
Senior Member
Username: johnoxley

Post Number: 85
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Sunday, July 14, 2013 - 05:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have an original brochure on the island gearbox - Will scan and attach when I dig it out? Interesting device, insides sort of like a constant mesh motorcycle gearbox with a driving dog clutch (no syncho) sliding on a mainshaft. This either gives a straight drive for ahead and a layshafts and spur gears for astern. Very compact and like an outboard leg, you have to flick them into drive quickly - Certainly not like engaging the clutches/bands on a Simplex box. In any case, I will dismantle to check, and while apart show casing to the SHF patternmaker and the gears to a gearcutter.
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johnoxley
Senior Member
Username: johnoxley

Post Number: 87
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Monday, July 15, 2013 - 01:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

See http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/3452/260545.html

Parallel discussion...
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qwilkin
Senior Member
Username: qwilkin

Post Number: 83
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Monday, July 15, 2013 - 02:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks John I have been in touch in the past with Nick field as he was restoring a boat and I am a member of the wooden boat association in Melbourne . So this is the island gearbox a Blaxland one .

Looks worthwhile trying to get a cost what do you think.
Quinton

??
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senojn
Senior Member
Username: senojn

Post Number: 107
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, July 15, 2013 - 04:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Quinton ,Just for your information johnoxley is a pseudonym .The vessel 'John Oxley' is an early Australian steamship named after an early Australian explorer .
The man who is so helpful to this site is named Andrew .
But moving away from the original post by 'Kingfisher' , who is a ferry operator on the Murray river in inland Australia which answers a number of his questions anyway .
There maybe potential through Andrew and many others to see if it is viable to build a number of these f/r gearboxes .
I am sure that if a suitable price is right there will be many takers .

Neil
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johnoxley
Senior Member
Username: johnoxley

Post Number: 88
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Monday, July 15, 2013 - 07:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi - I have the Blaxland Chapman gearbox sheet as a pdf but it exceeds the upload limit. If interested, send me your email.
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qwilkin
Senior Member
Username: qwilkin

Post Number: 84
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Monday, July 15, 2013 - 11:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Johnoxely email is qwilkin@internode.on.net
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kingfisher
Member
Username: kingfisher

Post Number: 13
Registered: 01-2013
Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 12:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Might be handy. kingfisher61@live.com
Mark
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senojn
Senior Member
Username: senojn

Post Number: 108
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 04:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Andrew ,
Would much appreciate the pdf.
senojn@optus.com.au

Neil
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johntr
New member
Username: johntr

Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 - 08:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John,

If you want to send the PDF to me I can compress it using the full version of Acrobat and return so easier to send.

John
john.treloar@ooyala.com
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kingfisher
Member
Username: kingfisher

Post Number: 14
Registered: 01-2013
Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2013 - 06:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Andy - got that pdf ok.
Mark

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