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Lackawana

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dick_briggs
Member
Username: dick_briggs

Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2015
Posted on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 10:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lackawana No. 1: HP - L, Motor No. - 2192. Wondering what is the year of manufacture is? There seems to be no place for an oiler, and I am wondering what the small inlet in the side of the crankcase is for (see first image). Thanks, Dick



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bruce
Senior Member
Username: bruce

Post Number: 515
Registered: 07-2002
Posted on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 11:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Similar to Richards ( archived discussion )posted catalog for 1906 with Buffalo address, showing Pedestal base and threaded intake and exhaust. Catalog shows drip oiler installed where small pipe plug is in your crank case. This oiler appears in the 1913 Balston Spa catalog on the 2 1/2hp model K but the mounting flanges are the typical ledge mount each side of the crank case. Richard??
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bruce
Senior Member
Username: bruce

Post Number: 516
Registered: 07-2002
Posted on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 12:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

THe Model L in the 1913 catalog; Balston Spa, has an "S" shaped bolted intake flange . Guessing this one is around 1908-ish
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3721
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 10:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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What is the stroke of this engine, or does it give the horsepower on the tag ?

Lackawanna made the L Singles in several sizes
when in Newburgh !

With the stroke measurement I can date it much
closer and I have some photos and history of the Company.

Nice Old Marine Engine !


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dick_briggs
Member
Username: dick_briggs

Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2015
Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 12:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you both for the information. The stroke is 4"; the HP box on the tag just has an L stamped in it. The crankcase port does indeed appear to be the place for an oiler, but I then wonder what good dripping oil into the crankcase would do - wouldn't it just accumulate there and not serve much of a function for oiling the piston and wrist pin? Maybe it does accumulate some and then gets splashed around by the connecting rod end? Looking at those advertisement pictures, it also looks like the flywheel has been put on the wrong end of the crank shaft - although it is held in place by a key and a large square nut. There is also a thrust bearing between the crankcase and the bevel gear driving the timer/water pump, so I guess it is right...???
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3722
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2015 - 07:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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Lackawanna Mfg Company was established in 1898 in Buffalo, N.Y.
Harry D. Baird claimed the design of the engines ? He did patent a carburetor and designed The St Clair (Little skipper), Yale, Elmore, and The Detroit Auto Marine engines.

By 1900 The Coldwell Lawn Mower Co. of Newburgh, N.Y. was using Lackawanna engines in their machines, 1904 H.D. Baird leaves the company and Lackawanna Mfgr Co. becomes part of the Coldwell Lawnmower Co., 1905 Lackawanna moves to a new facility at the Coldwell site in Newburgh.

This ad is 1904 at Buffalo Address

l04

These are from a 1906 Catalog Newburgh.

4" stroke was the 3 Hp, has pedestal base mount.

l061

L062

This is a 1908 ad and shows the rotary timer but has the newer design crankcase.

l08


Still trying to find more photo ads 1905, 1907 etc
but from what I can see the engine can't be older than 1905 with the newburgh address and not newer than 1906-07 with the pedestal base mount ?

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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 2180
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2015 - 05:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are pics of Dick Day's Lackawanna.
From the above add I assume it is a 1908.
Dick has owned it since 1935.















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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 2181
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2015 - 05:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The engine in the background is a Palmer Q1.
NO the Lackawanna isn't for sale
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3723
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Monday, November 30, 2015 - 12:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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Ernie. Glad you posted Dick's engine !

Lackawanna single cyl engines were different
in that the 3" stroke engines evolved a bit different than the 4" stroke engines.

This is a 1906 3" stroke 1 1/2 HP engine, these small ones have the angled back exhaust outlet and by 1906 have the conventional non pedestal mounts.

1.5 06


I can't find enough photos of these old Lackawannas to be certain of production years and differences, the rotary timers were used on their Multi's very early, but all the early ones had the chain driven Lobee water pumps, it seems that the rotary timers with water pump on same shaft came about 1907 or 08 ?? The possibility of the rotary with water pump being a factory option is to be considered ?

I have in my collection what I believe is the oldest Lackawanna that I know of its a three cyl
If any interest I'll post photos !

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dick_briggs
Member
Username: dick_briggs

Post Number: 10
Registered: 02-2015
Posted on Tuesday, December 01, 2015 - 08:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Ernie and Richard for the additional images and information. Richard, please post some pictures of your three cylinder engine. Does anyone have any thoughts about a drip oiler feeding directly into the crankcase? How does this accomplish sufficient lubrication?
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3724
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Tuesday, December 01, 2015 - 01:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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This old 3 cylinder Lackawanna was Deaccessioned
from the Henry Ford Museum about 15 years ago,it reminds me of some dogs their just so ugly you can't help loving them !
only info I have is that its 1904 or earlier, it had a multi oiler on starboard side copper piped to the crankcase inlets. It is missing the Lobee water pump ! the enginge turns freely and would probably run with a little attention.
We have talked about castings here, this must have a complex internal structure 3 Cylinders one intake and exhaust in the enblock ?


1


2


3


4


5


This is a 1906 catalog photo of oiler side of a 4 cyl.


oil


this is an internal illustration of the Lackawanna engines, it doesn't show the oil fittings but they would be in the crankcase side with the upsweep of the fuel mixture to the piston, how effective it was at oiling the upper cyl and piston ? seems everyone was struggling with the task in the early days !


illus


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gregoryan
Senior Member
Username: gregoryan

Post Number: 128
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Tuesday, December 01, 2015 - 08:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wonderful lookin' Ol' Engines! I bet the 3 & 4 cyl had a nice growl to them!?
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johntr
Member
Username: johntr

Post Number: 19
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2016 - 03:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greg, can you contact me directly re a Chapman exhaust for my Seadog engine? My email is: john@johntreloar.com

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