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YT1 much oil from crankcase breather

Old Marine Engine » One and Two Cylinder Gas Inboards » YT1 much oil from crankcase breather « Previous Next »

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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 75
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2016 - 05:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ran the YT for a full five mins yesterday. Installed a thru-hull into a 5gal bucket for cooling water. There are a couple issue yet to check into. The biggest item was that the breather spewed oil all over the place when running. I checked before assembly and it does operate smoothly as a check valve.

Also the oil went from yellow to black after only minutes of run time.That engine was obviously spotless inside. I will change the oil again.

I did not check the bore or piston tolerances (dont have dial bore gauge) but the rings seemed soft as it was easy to compress them with just bare hand.


Any thoughts from the experienced on the breather oil issue? With all new gaskets and oil seals, it is the only place getting oil onto the engine so solving it should keep things pretty clean.

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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 76
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2016 - 05:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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jim_miller
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Username: jim_miller

Post Number: 20
Registered: 03-2014
Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2016 - 10:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris, my yt made a little mess around the breather. Yours running for 5 mins looks a little excessive. What weight oil are you running? Open the drain below the breather to make sure your are not overfilled. It's hard to tell on your top picture, but it looks to have about a 1/4 of an inch of oil in the drip oiler. The bottom pic looks about dry. If that's the case, then your dripping way to much oil. But again it was hard to tell from top pic. Beautiifull engine
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 77
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2016 - 11:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jim, I used SAE30 non detergent as called for. The drip oiler was dropping too much, I will adjust that. I did think the crankcase was overfilled but only about 1oz came out of the side drain so its not that. (and even that took forever due to the thick oil!)

The distance the oil is thrown and the gasses ejecting from the breather made me think about blow-by which is why I mentioned the piston rings etc. Very much hoping to get a new cylinder from George when they become available whether the bore is tapered or not, because the jacket has the usual corrosion inside.

regards
chris
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richardday
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Username: richardday

Post Number: 1136
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Friday, November 25, 2016 - 02:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The petcock below the breather sets the level of the oil in the crankcase. You may be way over filling the crankcase. Properly adjusted the breather valve will make a popping noise as it does its function. Remember the drip oiler for the forward crankshaft bearing makes up for much of the oil lost in cylinder piston lubrication.
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 78
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Friday, November 25, 2016 - 02:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

richard, after this run, I drained that petcock and only got 1 oz. (which accounts for the oil from the drip oiler) so I dont think it was overfilled.
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keith
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Username: keith

Post Number: 475
Registered: 02-2002


Posted on Friday, November 25, 2016 - 05:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So am I understanding this correctly? After running the engine and it spitting oil all over the place, it still was 1oz overfull? Maybe if you clean it up and run it with the oil at the proper level,you will be okay.
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 79
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Friday, November 25, 2016 - 05:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

keith that is a good point, let me run it some more (starting with EXACT corect level) and then see again.
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david_doyle
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Username: david_doyle

Post Number: 104
Registered: 03-2013
Posted on Friday, November 25, 2016 - 05:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lucky Keith's approach is such an easy fix, fingers crossed here for ya. Let us know how it goes.

P.s if your thinkin about getting into measuring things try and keep the tools simple and practice lots. Buy minty old/or not so old american measuring tools or none at all. They are still a bargain used.

Careful tho measuring can become a sickness!
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 98
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2017 - 12:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I now know that it wasnt a matter of overfill. Ran it for quite a while and checked/drained the oil. this engine throws oil out the crankcase breather check-valve assembly like a shower, what a mess! and the level was not at the oil upper drain even with the drip oiler running too fast. the breather seemed to be fine (it check valve works fine) so I may consider a diy oil separator (a can with stainless steel scrubber in it that drains back into the engine). thats until I can get the (I assume) blow-by reduced with rings and a planned new cylinder and head eventually. so far nothing else leaks oil so fixing this (one way or the other) would keep the engine really clean. Trying to avoid skating on the boat's floor boards and leaving a trail of oil slick with bilge water. now that I'm older and more brittle.
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 107
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2017 - 05:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Today I dropped off the cylinder to my friendly local engine machine shop. They are old school and do antique engines often. Anyway I need the bore checked for out of round, taper, and wear. That will determine what to do next. I would like the piston and cylinder clean, and in tolerance with fresh rings. If the bore is big, then I asked that we consider sleeving it with absolute minimum material removed, and having the piston reproduced undersize. The logic here is, I do not know the extent of corrosion in the water jacket. With a sleeve pressed in and slightly smaller piston, it would be that much longer (if ever) that the cylinder would be compromised.

I am not sure what the status is with George's reproduction cylinders. I DEFINITELY hope he will produce a head, and have emailed back and forth with him about that last year.

But the cylinder blow-by issue can be fixed now, and well, once the machinist gets the measurements done and we have a plan. maybe will get lucky and just need a hone and rings?

Also, does anyone here know the best source for getting a piston made? That, and any other input appreciated.

-Chris




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giii
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Username: giii

Post Number: 23
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2017 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it premature to decide to bore without knowing where you are. If the cylinder needs a sleeve, pick a size that will leave the piston at the size it is, and only leave .030 or so to be bored in the block. Then fit the piston by boring the sleeve after pressing it in. This leaves most of the cylinder wall and all of the piston when you are done. It takes some head scratching and planning and is a tiny bit more work, but leaves the piston very near stock and takes the minimum amount of the wall away. I'm sure JB can explain it far better than me if I confused the world.
Old George
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 108
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 10:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanks george, I'll see what the machinist says bore looks like then go from there and if considering re sleeving, ask JB.

question, when are you going to make more yt1 head?

thanks,
chris
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paulgray
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Username: paulgray

Post Number: 155
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 03:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How much side clearance is there on the rings? If excessive you could be getting a lot of blow by . New rings in a vee shaped groove won't make things any better. How about recutting the ring grooves with spacers installed.
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 109
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanks paul, I will check that. never heard of spacers but just looked it up. apparently some use them to install thinner rungs for less friction as a retro fit. once the shop lets me know about the bore, will post updates from there.

I like George's advice as well, and do understand it. That leaves a thin wall sleeve but supported by a perfect bore and removes the least cyl material so its sounds quite beneficial in that way.
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 115
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Friday, March 03, 2017 - 05:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just got the verdict - cylinder is 20 thousandths over in the middle (barrel shaped). That's a real lot, and explains why the combustion chamber had a lot of oil in it and there was a lot of blow by.

We are going to sleeve it. This may be too cautious but I am not comfortable taking away any more material than necessary so we will probably bore it 40 over, sleeve that, and try and get a 2.875 (2 - 7/8") piston made or perhaps one exists. The benefit to making a piston is that it will use modern thin rings. So the power lost to a slight bore reduction will (more or less) come back with less piston ring friction.

The important thing is this engine will control its oil and combustion gasses properly again.

Sleeving it will cost $150. So far I have two prices to make pistons at around $600 for four (min order) I am hoping obviously to avoid spending that much and still looking around for either an existing piston or a place which can make just one, for less.
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giii
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Username: giii

Post Number: 24
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Friday, March 03, 2017 - 06:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not that I've ever done it, but why jump though all the hoops when it could be bored to 3.062 and an L.A. Sleeve #LA-214 pushed in with retaining compound; Then bore back to near 3" to fit the existing piston? I'm absolutely sure that the .031 wall will out last anyone on this board today and you will save a ton of money and work. Fall back position if you hit water when you bore, and you don't want such a thin wall, is to leave the sleeve full thickness and use the 2.875 bore with a piston of your choice or some other size between 2.875 and 3.0 inches.
George
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jb_castagnos
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Username: jb_castagnos

Post Number: 1286
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Friday, March 03, 2017 - 07:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would use the 1/16th sleeve, bore it to standard or maybe .010 under and dress the piston.
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 116
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2017 - 02:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks guys will take those options to discuss with machinist.

EDIT: I just looked at the LA-214, that has a 3.000 O.D., and according to my machinist he said I have to start with at least 3.004 (40 over min to get the cylinder straight) and go up from there to the next right sleeve size.

The 1/16" thick 3.000 bore sleeve would have an O.D. of 3.125 Sleeve number T-483 which is .008 undersize to dress the piston by that much.

So I get that JB suggests just bore it for the 1/16 sleeve or maybe a touch undersize and use my piston.

Georges suggestion I dont quite understand yet, the LA214 is too small for the hole and way too small for the piston, it's a 3" bore engine.


https://www.lasleeve.com/tech/all-purpose-sleeves


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giii
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Username: giii

Post Number: 25
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2017 - 08:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, I read the od as 3.062. I'm probably wrong, but the one I did worked out ok.
George
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ernie
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Username: ernie

Post Number: 2364
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 06:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris,
I have 1 YT piston blank.
The OD is currently 3.075 in.
It ONLY has the OD rough machined and the ring grooves rough machined. The wrist pin has NONE of the needed machining done and none of the oil holes and other machining for the the oil ring have been done.
Call me if you are interested.

By the way you got the decimal point in the wrong place above. 3.004 is 4 thou over.
40 over is 3.040
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 117
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 09:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ernie thanks I may talk to you about that (the piston not the decimal point, thanks for the correction!).

by the way, I just noticed that this piston is iron, so I weighed it on our kitchen scale and it is over 30oz. that's a lot of reciprocating weight (a briggs small engine piston is about 8 oz).

just thinking, if I went to an aluminum piston I wonder if the engine would run smoother in terms of vibration (unintended benefit)?
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jb_castagnos
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Username: jb_castagnos

Post Number: 1287
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 10:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The early yt's may not have been balanced, I think most of the later engines were. An aluminum piston would help with vibration and power, but it should be re balanced. The counter weights on the crank help to cancel the reciprocating piston, it's a trade off, using a rotating weight to balance a reciprocating piston. What happens is the base tries to follow the weights, the piston cancels the up and down, but the weights cause a side to side shake on the bottom end. The weights could be reduced considerably if you go to aluminum.
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 118
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 11:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jb thank you that is interesting info, at least for discussion and my learning. I'm generally reluctant to make too many changes from original. running a different piston is easy to reverse but reducing the crank counterweights obviously isnt (unless the weights drilled and can be later refilled?)

but, for discussion, how do you know how much to reduce the counterweights, is it 1:1??? the new piston could be 22oz lighter than this iron one, so 22oz somehow comes off the counterweights? maybe this is something the shop can do?

there are lots of optios here and ernie's oversize piston is probably the very best if I can find someone who can 100% machine it properly to +.040"

if someone has a orphaned YT crankshaft then I would be more than happy to lose 22oz of reciprocating weight, and have all the original stuff to stay with the motor and see how smooth it runs.
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 119
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 11:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

YT1 Crankshaft

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richardday
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Username: richardday

Post Number: 1137
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 - 08:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds to me like the real problem is the breather valve is not correctly adjusted. The nut on the top simply holds the top on the lock nut on the bottom is adjusted with the engine running so it makes the breather valve make a distinct popping noise showing it is creating a vacuum in the crankcase. Loosen the bottom end lock nut and screw the threaded shaft in and out until you get good popping of the valve.
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 120
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 - 08:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi dick, the cylinder is 20 thousandths over with wear. but that's great advice to adjust the breather once the piston clearance and cylinder wall is back where it should be with new rings.

all I know about the breather is that it functioned as a check valve by breathing through it. so the adjustment info is good to know, I will add it to my YT notes.

one other thing, when I took the head off, there was quite a bit of engine oil above the piston.
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ernie
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Username: ernie

Post Number: 2366
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 - 10:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hummmmmm......
The engine did NOT barf oil out of the breather before you took it apart.
If the breather isn't working correctly there will be oil above the rings.
Maybe Mr Day should be listened to!

Now onto other stuff.
1 Balance isn't a 1 to 1 weight between the piston and the counterweight on the crankshaft.
Balance will take into consideration connecting rod angle and other geometrical things.
2 As to a Briggs piston have you thought about wrist pin height?
You can't just make a new bushing for the connecting rod and install it.
See pics below for an explanation.
Yes you can bolt a hunk of aluminum on the top to get the height and Compression ratio back. But now you have a piston that is heavy on the top and not enough skirt length to support everything.

Note the wrist pin holes are lined up and the tops aren't even close.


Note the tops are lined up and the wrist pin holes aren't even close.


Suggestions on order of importance.

1 FOLLOW Mr Day's instructions on the breather adjustment. Then run it and see what happens.
2 Sleeve it and use your old piston that has been cut to fit.
3 Bore it and have the piston blank that I have machined to fit the new bore.
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 121
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 - 11:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks ernie. yes I was aware about the geometry of piston pin, piston top, as well as diameter. I only mentioned a typical small engine piston in terms of weight, as I was shocked that my YT piston is so incredibly heavy (almost 2 lbs!) and a modern small piston is a half a lb. It made it seem like a modern custom piston would make it run smoother as JB said "An aluminum piston would help with vibration and power, but it should be re balanced"

Getting a piston made and then having it rebalanced would be great if that delivered a much smoother motor, but that's maybe getting too far into the weeds. Probably better to get ur oversize piston machined, have the bore fixed and maybe obtain new rings, or get it sleeved. I would not reassemble the engine with a bore that is worn 20 over, better to resolve that.

I noted Dick's advice printed it and it is in my YT manual.

Fun project!

This is all great info and advice.
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 841
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 - 11:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Get the cylinder bored and sleeved undersize and turn the piston down to fit. Recut the ring grooves square, fit new rings, and that's the end of this saga.
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 122
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 - 03:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Spoke with my machinist regarding some of the new information. He can balance a lighter custom alum piston to my crankshaft no problem as long as there is sufficient counterweight to lighten.

He did say that whomever makes a reproduction piston will need to know the application is a cool, water cooled cast iron cylinder or else the piston could expand too much and seize since the aluminum piston will expand inside a cylinder which is nit expanding, taking up the cold clearance. Presumably they would make it a looser cold fit.

He also expanded on the "up and down (primary) vs side to side (secondary)" vibration, and agreed with the post here which said the counterweights cancel the primary.

He also has the opinion that a lighter piston, even if the crank is balanced for it, wont make much difference in engine vibration that one would notice. Just his opinion.

He also shared that a number industrial engines up through the 1960's were running cast iron pistons.

Finally, he shared a story of a large bore antique car engine circa 1920 that the customer had billet pistons made for, which seized when it was run due to the reason above.

So, posting this to hopefully help future OME visitors know some of the issues before making any mistake with these rare motors. Someone may not have a good piston and will have no choice but to have one made, and it would be almost certainly aluminum so to be aware of the issue.
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jb_castagnos
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Username: jb_castagnos

Post Number: 1288
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have patterns that I made for the Lockwood Ash motors, we've cast over 70 pistons, more than half or running in boats. The motors are noticeably smoother and faster, these engines don't run a balanced crank. We run more clearance on the top land, stepping down on each land to the skirt where we run an extra .002 clearance. The first pistons were too tight in the top land, dragging when the engine got hot.
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giii
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Username: giii

Post Number: 26
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 - 08:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe take a look at the Barker post to see how a guy made a aluminum piston that didn't seize in the bore. Seem to remember an aluminum rod too.
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 123
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2017 - 06:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds good. I don't have the ability to cast a piston, who here would be willing to make one for a fair price?

JB, that piston you describe, it has essentially been turned .002 smaller at the top, from the top ring up, is that how I am reading it?

I will look for that Barker post George

and as always thank you george and jb for the advice and info
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david_doyle
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Username: david_doyle

Post Number: 108
Registered: 03-2013
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2017 - 11:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kayak,

From the arm chair it feels like maybe a breather is the solution. (figuratively and literally).
You do not need the engine till the running gear is fabed and installed so there is no rush.

These things can get out of hand in a hurry if you let them.

The one thing you know for certain is that it recently ran with no issues.

You know that for some reason when you reassembled it there was cause for concern.

You were told by someone else operating someone else's measuring tools some numbers.

Now you are staring down the barrel at work/investment that is almost certainly not required.

STOP- choose to trust Ernie and maybe hold off on seeking more trouble. Too many cooks in the kitchen can spoil the broth.

FYI " a fair price" to cast a custom piston is more then you have invested in engine and boat. Machining that lump of Aluminum........ Asking anyone to do this work for less then 100 dollars an hour is certainly NOT fair.

Your a guy that needs to buy the tools- knowledge to do this stuff in house. Amazing how much work does not need to be done if time/burnt fingers and not money are required.

Have fun building the device and poke away on the engine in small doses in your own shop.

Cheers
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kayak
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Username: kayak

Post Number: 124
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2017 - 01:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

call me fussy but I was taught the proper way to address a cylinder situation results in a smooth, honed bore that is straight and with proper piston clearance, and fresh rings. I know this is a very old engine and it was running. but facts are the bore is 20 over in the center and pitted in places.

what makes this interesting is JB's info that an aluminum piston may be an operating improvement. If I can get one made for a reasonable cost, the cylinder can be inexpensively sleeved which will add material and time before any corrosion issues make it through if ever.

why wouldnt I want a better, more durable engine with proper tolerances? other than the worn bore and water jacket corrosion, the rest of the motor seems in great shape.

I would ask my machinist friend about turning a piston but he balked at turning the companion flange for some reason and seems much happier making the device arm and pivot. I don't want to ask too much there.

if anyone here is interested to turn an undersize piston for a reasonable price please let me know. I will have the jug sleeved and be done with it.

by the way remember a benefit to a more modern piston is that the ring grooves can be made to modern narrow standards, and then rings would be easy to come by and very cheap.

so, the water jacket would be thicker, the piston lighter, the oil control and compression back to factory, engine smoother.

all benefits gained by simply procuring a piston.
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david_doyle
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Username: david_doyle

Post Number: 109
Registered: 03-2013
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2017 - 02:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you want "fair" and "reasonable" first step is probabley to order up these tools to give as a gift before you ask for a favor. This is all above my pay grade but I am sure it would get you started. Oh yeah sure it seems like a lot of money but that is only cause it is from your wallet not the other guys LOL.

starrett part #:

84AZ-111-5J

1175MZ

3732XFL-3

P.S I do not know if these are appropriate but I am sure they are ball parkish if not a bit pedestrian.
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giii
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Username: giii

Post Number: 27
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2017 - 09:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dave reed has original rings for a few dollars each; he lives up the street from us but ships UPS every day. I don't know that modern rings would be cheaper or worth the effort, and I do my own work.
That said, it's your engine and your wallet.
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kayak
Senior Member
Username: kayak

Post Number: 125
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2017 - 06:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

a couple days ago, I emailed what I thought was dave's address, no reply.
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kayak
Senior Member
Username: kayak

Post Number: 130
Registered: 06-2016
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2017 - 12:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, great news I found the up to date email for Otto below: (I had done a search and used the old email)




E-mail:otto@ringspacers.com

email note: The old otto @dol.net email address is no longer in service as of 01-15-10. Please use the new ringspacers.com email address.
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narrabay
Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 7
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2017 - 11:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have sleeve, rings. Now to choose shop with boring machine, hoping to find one ok to participate and see how it's done. That sleeve is undersize so two borings will be needed this was per George and others advice. .0005" interference fit with loctite 37424 sleeve retainer. Sleeve will be against a "lock stop" (unbored 1/4" at bottom of bore) and held down by head gasket at top so it can't move. My head gasket hole is too big to hold the sleeve so I will make one from 3/32" copper.


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narrabay
Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 10
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2017 - 05:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a quick update, just waiting for this sleeve work to make it to the top of my machinists list. A month ago he said "a week". But that's a week in "machinist time". And if there is anyone you don't want to rush, its a machinist working on your rare part. Plus I like to shoot the breeze with them in my weekly visit anyway. Soon enough, this should be running again. I wont adjust the breather initially but will when the rings seat in, and will share the results.

Happy boating. :-)
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narrabay
Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 01:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Got the cylinder back today, very happy. He described the issues resolved included out of round, some pitting, and generally very worn. Boring for the sleeve was .125" and he said he would have had to probably go at lease half of that to get it back in shape anyway. He did not penetrate the water jacket, but at the bottom (where there is normally sediment inside the water jacket) he saw discoloration on the cylinder wall after boring it. So the corrosion was close to working its way through there, he said. We talked about a few of the issues on these old engines regarding cooling and corrosion, and temperatures. It is nice to work with a machinist who is familiar with this old iron. There was a little epoxy repair at one of the water passages as well which seems holding up fine. So this was a typically worn piece that should now be ready for more years of service. Piston he said had little wear and is in good shape.

Thanks again to George and Jb and Ernie and others for the advice on using a smaller sleeve and re-boring it, that turned out to be just right solution in this case.






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jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos

Post Number: 1304
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 07:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looks like he did a good job, compression should be great.
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richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 1141
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Friday, May 12, 2017 - 06:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How do you know the breather is operating correctly. With the engine running loosen the bottom lock nut and rotate the threaded shaft in and out and you should find a place where it causes the breathe to make a popping noise. Don't tell me it has a good check action. you need the check action in response to the piston travel. Ernie made the point it worked coccectly when he had it.
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narrabay
Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 12
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2017 - 08:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"With the engine running loosen the bottom lock nut and rotate the threaded shaft in and out and you should find a place where it causes the breather to make a popping noise."

thanks rich, will do when the time comes when it's back together, hopefully fairly soon.
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bpineo
Advanced Member
Username: bpineo

Post Number: 31
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 06:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mr. Day is absolutely correct! Take any YT and adjust the breather and they start to puke oil. All of the above work on sleeves etc may have been needed down the road, but the issue with the oil is an incorrectly adjusted breather; and it always was from the start. Mr. Day I believe owns the very first Palmer, and is the Palmer Historian, and is probably the most schooled and experienced individual with Palmer engines short of the inventor. His advice should have been listened to from the start.

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