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Dispro E1 waterfeed?

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wainair
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Username: wainair

Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 - 04:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, I have been sifting through the forum lately, which is a huge wealth of information,but I havenít seen much on the Dispro E1ís so Iím hoping someone out there has the knowledge that I need!!
Recently I bought a late 20ís Dippy and Iím starting the process of putting it back in working order. The motor, a Dispro E1, has good compression but was missing itís ignition system and water intake hoses. Iíve sourced a buzzer coil but Iím not sure about the intake into the water pump. The forum wonít let me attach a picture. But there is an intake port in the keel then off the pump there is a open pipe pointing down off the starboard side of the pump. Iím guessing that the intake into the pump is connected by a hose to the infeed in the bottom of the boat, seems logical but there is opening on the eccentric lobe on the shaft that pumps the pump. Is that just an oiling cup or am I missing something?

If anyone knows I be grateful to hear! Thanks!
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wainair
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Username: wainair

Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 - 04:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also one more thing. The original spark plug for the motor has lost its threaded terminal, it is snapped off. Does anyone know what the replacement spark plug would be?
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wainair
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Username: wainair

Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 - 07:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



Woohoo I got it to upload!! so Iam guessing that #1 is the water intake into the pump, #2 is the oiling cup for the eccentric lobe on the shaft and #3 is the water intake through the keel?
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ernie
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Username: ernie

Post Number: 2464
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 - 07:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are correct
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wainair
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Username: wainair

Post Number: 4
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2018 - 07:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Ernie!!
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miro
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Username: miro

Post Number: 987
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2018 - 09:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There should also be a drain for the muffler through the hull.
About 1/3 of the exhaust water goes there and the rest goes out through the muffler to cool it and quieten it.

Lots of good info at
http://disproboats.ca/

I use a modern version of the buzz coil - 2x the output voltage with about 1/2 the current. Easy to make with modern parts in an "olde" wooden box.

The spark plug is the same as used on a Model T Ford - uses a 1/2 pipe thread - lots of them around. If you are stuck, I'll send you one.

Where did you find the boat ?

miro
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wainair
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Username: wainair

Post Number: 5
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2018 - 01:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found it on Kijiji up near Ottawa. Iíve just come to the realization this morning that my Dippy is a 1946 Greavette. I found the serial number 46-8 stamped in the keel just a couple hours ago. So the motor is not the original. It should have a 9hp electric start St.Lawrence in it. Which also explains the three blade prop and aluminum device! So now my dilemma is do I try and source that motor and dash or do I stick with the Dispro?
I have lots of time to decide. The boat is pretty solid but it does need some wood work.

Thanks for the spark plug info Miro! I have been to the disproboats.ca site and they do have lots of great info there! I mailed in for membership last week and Iím waiting to hear back from them.
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keith
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Username: keith

Post Number: 522
Registered: 02-2002


Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2018 - 10:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tom, A great group of people are associated with the Dippy owners group. Lots of friendly advice and help. All your questions will be answered, all the help you need is there. Joining the DOA will allow you to enjoy your Dippy with a great bunch of people. You will have to involve you and youíre family in their regattas. Youíre lucky to be close to the main activities. Good fortune with your progress.
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mikeyb
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Username: mikeyb

Post Number: 10
Registered: 02-2014
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2018 - 08:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tom I've been looking for an E-1 for my Dippy, so if you decide to go the St. Lawrence route please let me know.
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wainair
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Username: wainair

Post Number: 6
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2018 - 11:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Keith, and yes mikeyb I'll keep you in mind if I decide to go the St.Lawrence route!
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narrabay
Advanced Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 46
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Monday, October 01, 2018 - 05:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice to see a Dispro being resurrected. Please keep us posted and maybe a video when it's done?! :-)
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spring
Advanced Member
Username: spring

Post Number: 35
Registered: 06-2018
Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2018 - 03:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BTW A Model T spark plug cross references with I believe it is an A 525. I recently bought one at NAPA. Pricey at $30 CDN but correct.

Cheers!
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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 2486
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2018 - 06:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Use Autolite 3095 $2.22 US at Rock Auto or Motorcraft F-11 usually less than 5 bucks.
Use the Repro Champion for display as it will foul rather quickly. The Autolite and Motorcraft plugs do not foul.
Hope this helps
Ernie
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spring
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Username: spring

Post Number: 36
Registered: 06-2018
Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2018 - 01:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ernie. That"s a valuable bit of intel to have. I had planned on acquiring a spare plug anyway. It looks like the Champion 525 will become the spare. Thanks.

Cheers!
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keith
Senior Member
Username: keith

Post Number: 526
Registered: 02-2002


Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2018 - 11:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wainair, There are two people on this forum that have more experience and knowledge than the rest of us combined, that would be Ernie and JB. When they speak, you need to listen. For whatever itís worth. Keith
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narrabay
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Username: narrabay

Post Number: 47
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2018 - 11:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard Day is another. He explained to me how to properly adjust the mechanical crankcase breather on my Palmer YT to control crankcase oil. Simple enough procedure, but that I likely would never have properly figured out.

Not sure if this has anything on your water pump issue but I bought the book "The Greatest Little Motor Boat Afloat: The Legendary Disappearing Propeller Boat" and it's a great read. If you don't already have it, great book on Dispros.
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spring
Advanced Member
Username: spring

Post Number: 43
Registered: 06-2018
Posted on Saturday, November 03, 2018 - 09:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ernie. What should the plug gap be on the F11 or 3095?

Cheers!
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miro
Senior Member
Username: miro

Post Number: 1009
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2018 - 05:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I usually make the gap about 30 - 35 thou .

This is a bit more than others, but I also use the modern version of the buzz coil that gives a good energetic spark. I suspect that there is sufficient energy in the spark to burn off any carbon build up.
I also try to keep the mixture as lean as I dare - just enough to keep it from backfiring and to reduce carbon build up.

On much higher speed engines the gap might affect timing , but on these slow turning engines that's not a problem and in any case the timing is variable on these slow engines.

The other advantage of the buzz coil is that at starting RPM,( 150 RPM more or less) you get multiple sparks when the timer makes the contact (depending on the engine timer type,you'll get 7 to 10 sparks) .

miro
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spring
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Username: spring

Post Number: 44
Registered: 06-2018
Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2018 - 06:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Miro.

Two things. The first is that I will have a question WRT water pump that I am hoping you, or someone else can help me on. I'll post it under Adams once I've had a chance to do more poking around.

The second is that I have been enjoying your videos. I lost my brother this past May to cancer. He lived in Carencro, just outside Lafayette. For years, each March I would go down to visit with him and celebrate his birthday, the 14th. Seems we were both in the same neighbourhood at about the same time.

Cheers!
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ernie
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Username: ernie

Post Number: 2496
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2018 - 07:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

150 RPM??? Miro, is your Dippy electric start?

By the way spark plug gap really doesn't effect timing. Remember electricity travels at 186K miles per second. As to the number of sparks it depends on the frequency of your buzz coil. I am still using a real Ford T coil on 12 volts and it gives a lot more than 7 to 10 sparks.

Also as to the gap I have no idea.

What ever it came out of the box at. As long as you have enough voltage available the bigger the gap the less chance you have of a misfire. I guess the plug in my Gray right now is around .040 in.

Yes I run it as lean as I can. Just above the misfire point. Running dead slow the plug stays light tan with very little carbon. I am using 24 to 1 gas oil mix since it what my old OMC outboard use and both of my boats share gas tanks.

Hope this helps
Ernie
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mikeyb
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Username: mikeyb

Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2014
Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2018 - 08:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Since this topic started on water pump intake anyway...
What is inside that little pump? Is it tough to repair or rebuild? This is timely topic for me since I was replacing that same intake line today.
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miro
Senior Member
Username: miro

Post Number: 1010
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2018 - 06:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The water pump is quite simple, just a plug of brass moving up and down inside the bore of the pump.

There are 2 ball valves on to of the pump casting. These need to be seated so there are no leaks. The screw-on tops trap each of the respective balls in position.

The tops are different from each other so don't mix them up.

As for repair, the important thing is the packing seal around the bottom of the pump casting. Sometimes, the surface of the slug of brass that is the piston, isn't smooth and wears away the packing allowing it to suck air in. The packing is graphite string, so the simple remedy might be to put on a bit more ( 1 or 2 turns) of the packing.

miro
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spring
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Username: spring

Post Number: 46
Registered: 06-2018
Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2018 - 07:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Adams motor manual (circa 1915) says that lamp wick or leather, coated in grease makes suitable packing. I've used lamp wick for packing together with a couple of wraps of teflon string. When I get to it, the prop shat stuffing box packing will likely also be lamp wick. Adams says that lamp wick wears faster than leather, but what the heck.
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ernie
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Username: ernie

Post Number: 2497
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Monday, November 05, 2018 - 05:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Miro,
I have received 11 e-mails yes eleven of them wondering what you meant.
Do I assume that your are meaning 2 ball type check valves on the top of the pump casting?

In our world graphite string is the easiest way to wear a pump piston. Just use Teflon packing. Be careful with Teflon string as it will cold flow. Spend the money and get some actual packing that is 3/16 in or so. It works much better than the 1/8 string that is readily available in just about every hardware store.

Hope this helps
Ernie
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spring
Advanced Member
Username: spring

Post Number: 48
Registered: 06-2018
Posted on Monday, November 05, 2018 - 06:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Ernie. When it comes to guidance, all donations much appreciated.

Cheers!
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bcm
Senior Member
Username: bcm

Post Number: 93
Registered: 11-2009
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 - 10:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This from Barry Millar.

The image illustrates operation of a reciprocating water pump as used with St Lawrence engines. The principal is the same for other pumps. I pack St Lawrence pumps with five rings of 3/32" square graphite impregnated packing. This is the correct size for St Lawrence however it is not easy to locate. 1/8" square seems to be the smallest stock size. I agree Teflon packing would be equal.
Note the balls are contained in cages so they are prevented from blocking ports.
This water pump description is just a small excerpt from an extensive technical document that I put together years ago that covers two cycle marine engine technology. Send me an email if you are interested in a copy.

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raa
Senior Member
Username: raa

Post Number: 189
Registered: 02-2007


Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 - 12:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That 3 blade may be the correct one for your E1 just look for stamping should be 10x12 LH .I have a E1 which came with a device, recoil ,prop and E1 engine. Another great source for Dippy info I Paul Doddington the "Dippy Doctor". Paul is one of the originals and probably knows more than anyone this side of Mars.
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jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos

Post Number: 1397
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 - 07:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you can't find small packing take a larger size and place it between two plates, squeeze in a press or vice, you'll have a rectangle piece that will fit.
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raa
Senior Member
Username: raa

Post Number: 190
Registered: 02-2007


Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2018 - 10:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have some square waxed packing a bit too large to fit in E1 nut but you can squeeze it like JB says and it will fit. Waxed is the best if you can find it. I can send you some if you want?

Cheers
Dick
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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 2498
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2018 - 07:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I squeeze it with linemans pliers, 3/4 of an inch at a time. Or as JB says in a vise. I don't need the 2 plates as one of my vises has smooth jaws.

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