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St Lawrence Company and Engine Inform...

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Michael Marmet
Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 12:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Everyone-
I am amid purchase of a 1922 St Lawrence 2 cycle/2cylinder. I have had a tough time finding out much on the company other than when they started and stopped- the current owner has been a strong resource, however, does anyone have any copies of manuals, sales brochures, engine pics- or sources for information? In addition- information on typical St Lawrence buzz coil/battery and transmission set ups is also appreciated- Thanks! -Michael
michaelmarmet@aol.com
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Michael Marmet
Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 12:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

P.S.- I want to thank all the readers out there because after exhausting myself to find a righteous antique 2 cylinder 2 cycle marine engine in the leather-stocking New York area, I posted a "want ad" on this site for one and within a week I was emailed with an offer for this St Lawrence- thanks! -Michael
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Ernie
Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 03:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michael,
I have a copy of the owners/parts manual for what you have. However I am off to Chicago on monday and will not have a chance to copy it for you untill the middle of the month. If you have not found what you want by then I will be happy to do that for you for the cost of copying and postage.
Let me know
Ernie
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J.B. Castagnos
Posted on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 11:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I recently purchased a St. Lawerence, lever timer, plunger pump, brass connecting rods, it appears to be an early model to me. Does anyone know how to date them, where the serial # is located, what hp? This engine is in great
shape, good compression, no rust, paint appears to be original.
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richarddurgee
Posted on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 11:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This St Lawrence was 2nd engine in my collection about 25yrs ago.Its all original,about 1 1/2Hp serial no # 751.
Michael what is Serial no. on your just purchased twin ? and how did the previous owner date it 1922 ??
Seeing several St Lawrences over the years,it seems that most of the changes were made to the exhaust manifold design, early ones were pipes and later ones were casted assemblies ?? Any pics
with serial nos??
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richarddurgee
Posted on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 12:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

St Lawrence.jpg
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andrew
Posted on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are pictures of JB's engine that he mentioned above:

sl2
sl3
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andrew
Posted on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 01:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a picture of Michael Marmets engine...

sl
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Richard Day
Posted on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 07:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The serial number on my two cylinder St. Lawrence is 5688. It has cast iron heads and the exhaust manifold is much smaller than JB's. Unfortunately my exhaust is a wet exhaust so I won't be running it at shows that for sure. Its in very good condition although stuck. Not all beat up and complete. I restored a single cylinder for Bill Armiger about 20 years ago and when he died his wife sold it so I have no idea where it is now. That engine had corrugated copper plates in the transfer port to keep any backfiring from setting the crankcase on fire. First time I had ever run into that nicety. Any one else seen that before?
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andrew
Posted on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 08:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dick,

The cellular bypass was prominent in the advertising material of the Roberts Motor Co. In fact their moto was THE MOTORS THAT NEVER BACKFIRE which was based on their "patented" system.

Here is a description from a 1916 catalog... not sure how legible it will be...

bypass
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richarddurgee
Posted on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 10:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dick: I am reading a 1909 ROBERTS MOTOR CO.catalo
"Every Roberts Motor is now fitted with a device,
which we term the "CELLULAR BY-PASS " and by its use we are able to avoid crankcase explosions or
"backfiring" altogether.
The catalog has a picture of the corrugated metal
pieces between flat sheets, they explain it as being very similar to a Honey-Comb Radiator, and show the devise in the port of a dismantled cylinder.
Reading now from "The Gas-Engine Handbook" by E.W Roberts 1903". He says that this form of back fire preventer was devised by himself, the principle involved is that employed in the well known Davy Safety lamp for miners, in which a fine mesh screen surrounds the flame, effectually preventing the lamp from setting fire to any mine gas with which it may come in contact.the fine screen of the lamp prevents the communication of the flame to the surrounding gas because it chills the products of combustion that pass through it to a temperature below the ignition temperature of the gas.another advantage is that the heat from the cylinder conducted to the corrugated metal thoroughly vaporizes the mixture and results in lowering fuel consumption. the temperature of the plates remains about 150 degrees F this temperature is below that of the ignition of the mixture, but above the temperature at which gasoline vaporizes.
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J.B. Castagnos
Posted on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 10:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michaels engine has copper tubes to connect the water jacket to the exhaust. My engine has an itegral connector, a screw is visible on the rear cylinder where the water enters the manifold, I would guess this is to balance cylinder temperatures. Also looking through the inspection covers I see the connecting rods are brass, was this common on all St. Lawerence engines? The tag has no serial number, was it stamped any where else on the engine?
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richarddurgee
Posted on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 11:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My St Lawrence single above also has brass connecting rod. Am making a metal block to attach to the outlet end of the exhaust manifold that wil seal off water channels and have an exhuast gas outlet only. The cooling water can come out of 3/8 pipe fitting on top of the manifold and hopefully convert it to a dry exhaust?? Any comments ???
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J.B. Castagnos
Posted on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 07:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard, this piece was missing on my engine, was thinking of making both styles, dry for running at shows, wet to run in my boat.
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miro
Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 09:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is some more info on the St Lawrence engine from the DisPro web site. It is a scanned copy of original documents including the yellowed paper

http://www.disappearingpropellerboat.com/specifications.html

miro
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Richard Day
Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 09:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for all the input on the cellular baffles. Missed that one for sure. It is so long ago that I restored Bill's St. Lawrence I don't remember if it had a bronze con rod or not. Lot of engines in between since then. It was a very nice running engine. With regard to the insert to bypass the cooling water I have so many Palmers and so little time left to restore them I wont be doing that trick. Ernie Darrow told me he had done a similar approach on a Termat and Monahan or Detroit don't remember which. I think they all came off the same patterns so guess it doesn't matter too much.
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Ernie
Posted on Saturday, September 07, 2002 - 09:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Two things,
1 transfer screens, I have seen them in the following, most Roberts designs no matter what the actual name on the engine, Fairbanks Morse (with removable head), Gray model "U", St Lawrence and at least one more that I can't think of right now.
2 the easiest way to make a St Lawrence exhaust dry is to make a spacer out of 1/2 inch steel or aluminum plate that has the same shape as the gasket. Instead of drilling the water passage through just drill in from the engine side, but do not drill through to the exhaust side. Drill down from the top to meet the hole from the engine side and tap 1/4 in pipe. Your manifold will be spaced out 1/2 inch but it is hardly noticable. Relativle easy in a single a little more complicated in a twin. There was a nicely restored St Lawrence at Calvert this spring set up this way.
Hope this helps
Ernie
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Ernie
Posted on Saturday, September 07, 2002 - 09:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is the engine from Calvert. The quality is poor since I took it from this years Calvert pics then enlarged and cropped it. However you can clearly see the spacer between the manifold and cylinder.
Text description
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George
Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 12:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That picture at Calvert is of my engine and Ernie is correct about construction of the spacer. I made mine from 1" aluminum plate. If I were to do it again, I would bring the 1/4" pipe out the back to be a little less obtrusive. The spacer is unpainted so as to not hide that is not original. That wet exhuast can make an unpleasant mess!
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Ernie
Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 09:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice engine George! Are you going to PRAD at Calvert on Columbus day weekend?
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George
Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 07:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PRAD? Didn't know anything was going on Columbus weekend. Please fill me in.
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Ernie
Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2002 - 09:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pawtuxet River Appreciation Days Dick Day has the info. I am planning on attending. Not sure how much room there is for engines.
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Richard Day
Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For the past 20 plus years I have run marine engines at PRAD. It really isn't a marine engine show like the show last spring but I am sure there would be no problem if one or two showed up with marine engines. There is very limited space so it would be disastorous if a gang showed up. If you are interested in coming let me know via e-mail or telephone and do it soon as I will have to coordinate with Karen at the museum to make sure we have sufficient space. I know the museum staff would love to have more the better up to a point but we will only a small part of the parking lot.

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