Home | Classifieds | History | Technical | Links | Store | About Us | Email
Topics Topics Edit Profile Profile Help/Instructions Help Member List Register  
Search Last 1|3|7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  

6V Starter Help Request

Old Marine Engine » Multi Cylinder Gas Inboards » 6V Starter Help Request « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

davet
Posted on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 07:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've had my 1933 Lycoming UAB up and running, but I can't get the original AutoLite MZ-4025 6V starter to have the gumption to do the job (I've just turned it over from the front mounted one-way drive, with power direct to the coil). I've been through this darn starter using the original AutoLite books (Training Manuals found on ebay), and the local starter shop says 'he thinks it's o.k.' (not very confidence inspiring....). Bottom line is that the thing won't crank the motor even with a new, fully charged industrial 6V battery, about 900 amp hour, I believe. Does anyone know of a knowledgeable person who could check out this starter? Another thing, is it common practice to gang two 6V batteries together to drive older systems like this with a higher amp hour kick? Thanks in advance - Dave Triano
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

bill schaller
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 02:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you have balls, you can try it on 12 volt. both my MM tractors have been converted to 12 volt systems, but the original 6 volt starter was left on, they work better on 12 volts. no guarantee yours won't melt into a puddle of copper, though.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

miro
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 03:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've had very good success with both a 6 cylinder and a smaller 4 cylinder Buchanan doing what Bill suggests.

I've been using this approach for about 10 years with no visible effects on the starters. I use the boats almost every weekend in the summertime.

I found that it's better to get the engine to turn over smartly, than to grind away slowly. I also apply common sense and if the the engine doesn't start reasonably quickly, I take a look to see why.

Before doing this ( using 12V on a 6V stater) on the small 4 cylinder, I bent the starter shaft when I was grinding away slowly, the engine cough, died, and the starter re-engaged - made an awful sound and bent the shaft.

To keep the engine as authentic as possible, I made a set up that starts on 12V but runs on 6V. I can send you a sketch of how I did this.

It involves a second 6V battery which is only used for starting. The first battery runs the engine, lights, bilge pump etc and is charged by the generator. I find that I need to re-charge the second battery overnight once a month or so.

If you're really keen, you can put in a double pole, double throw switch that lets you start on 12V but run on 6V and charge both batteries. I have not done that cause I'm lazy or something, I reckon.

Missed all you guys at Calvert caused by some mineral deposits on my drainage system.

Miro
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

davet
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 10:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the suggestions, Bill and Miro. Last time I checked, I do have balls, so I tried 12V on the starter...:) The starter is still severely struggling to turn the engine over. The engine might still be tight from sitting for 30 years (I have only gotten it to run for a couple of brief -30 second to one minute- stints), but a darn starter that functions correctly should still be able to crank a tight motor, right? This leads back to my original question, does anybody know of a good shop familiar with early marine starters that I could get to take a look at it? I received the suggestion of tractor shops, which is great, but they're pretty few and far between in my part of the world....I also have brand new 6 guage (3/8" thick...!) wire in the system, so it should be getitng all the juice it should need. Thanks again for your help guys---DT
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

davet
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 10:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And yes, Miro, I would love to see your sketch, as I want to keep the system running on 6V ( all instruments are set up for 6V). Please send it to shadowcmp@earthlink.net at your convenience. Thanks again for all of the help- Dave Triano
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Richard Day
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2004 - 10:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

6 AWG doesn't sound too good to me? Are you saying the copper is 3/8" in diameter or the whole cable with the insulation? Have you measured the voltage drop when starting at the terminal of the starter and engine frame? Incidentally trying to charge two six volt batterys in paralell can be difficult without some diode or other isolation. When the generator stops the weaker battery robs from the stronger one. We missed you Miro at the show. Hope you are coming along fine now.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

davet
Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 09:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, I misspoke, it's 2/0 wire, the copper core is about 3/8" in diameter, with vinyl and fabric covering it totals about 1/2". More substantial than the original wires that were there. Your point about charging is well taken, I actually was considering a scheme I saw where a 12V battery is enlisted for starting, with the system running on a second 6V battery. The 12V is total loss (non-recharged by the engine system), and just needs to be recharged on a regular basis. I'll check the voltage drop issues, thanks.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

olarry
Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most places are not set up to do real power tests so they just guess and replace parts and see if it runs free ok.Most likely you will need to take it back to the repair place and have the armeture replaced.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

miro
Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 03:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dave - - if you have not already done so, take the starter apart to give it a good cleaning and inspection including the bendix as well as cleaning the commutator and the contacts at the brushes - all points where there might be a voltage loss . When I did the original work on my 2 engines years ago - there was a lot of crud that had built up over the previous 30 years of use.
If all else fails, you can try to find a re-built unit - most of the marine engine manufactureres used parts and sub-systems from other industries to keep costs down - I suspect that your Autolite starter was used elswhere. A little patience and you'll find one.
Any chance of a photo of the engine and starter?

And Richard - I passed the little bugger ( about the size of an unground black pepper - no wonder it hurt so gall darn much
miro
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

davet
Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2004 - 07:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Got it going! 2 things: The connection between the end 'cap' terminal on the original wire that I was using to ground was very corroded internally, and there was a suspect insulator washer on the positive post on the starter, and it must have been creating an 'occasional' ground on the case. Resoldered the connection, Replaced the insulator washer, and it cranks like it was designed to, very strong. Thanks to everyone for all of your help,I'll post some pictures of it up and running after I iron out the rest of the wrinkles, and after I wipe this big grin off my face...:) - Dave

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a public posting area. Enter your username and password if you have an account. Otherwise, enter your full name as your username and leave the password blank. Your e-mail address is optional.
Password:
E-mail:
Options: Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Administration Administration Log Out Log Out   Previous Page Previous Page Next Page Next Page

Home | Classifieds | History | Technical | Links | Store | About Us | Email
&copy 2005 OldMarineEngine.com, P.O. Box 188, Forest Dale, VT 05745-0188 • Phone: 802-247-4864 • All rights reserved.
   Marine Engine Seloc Repair Manual Lookup Tool

marine gas engine repair and restoration