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Bush-Sulzer Question

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pauli
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Username: pauli

Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 12:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hello Forum

I have been lurking around for a while but decided to join to post and participate.

I have a 87 foot old steel boat with a East German SKL 6 cylinder low rpm open head 150 hp engine, works like a charm and plenty of spare parts.

My question comes from desire to by an even bigger boat, a tug with the following main engine.

Bush-Sulzer
Port Eng No. 1529 Type 6-DFMT-17
Bore: 13” Stroke: 17” R.P.M 380
BHP: 650 EXH. TEMP full load: 650 F

The tug itself is in descent condition, built in 1950.
As you can see I need an engine manual before I can lay my hands on one there is a question I hope the expertise here can help with.

What function does this wheel have, it has de burred (sorry my English isn’t all that good) see image, I thought of moving it forward, but then thought it might have something to do with reversing the engine so wont be needed as there is a Kameva propeller system at this time.

The closest I could find was
“PB 19153 - BSIR 1(22):1372 Technical Manual, TM 55-1140, 45. Engine, Diesel, Marine, Gusch-Sulzer, Model 6-DFMT-17. “ from http://www.unl.edu/Bolin_resources/bsir/APPEND_B.HTM and no way to download, any ideas?






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pauli
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Username: pauli

Post Number: 3
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 12:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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steve marsh
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Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 11:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is the camshaft drive gear we're looking at,right? The cam has to be moved toward the right {in picture} to bring up the other set of lobes on the cam.Then it will run backwards.This has to be done with the engine stopped, or the cam gears could get stripped.This may be what happened. If you don't need to reverse the engine,your fix should work, but it would be better to get a new gear made.
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Jordan Colaso
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Posted on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 10:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Steve is right about it. That gear is for reversing and the deburring of the gear seems like something wrong has happened there. should'nt be a problem for reversing. may be the gears were not matched right wile reversing. Check the axial clearance incase you are going to change the gear or else you might be end up changing it on a regulr basis. Contact a sulzer technician for more information.
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applguy
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Username: applguy

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2011
Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2011 - 11:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm Volunteering some time to help restore a 3000hp & 1600hp Busch-Sulzer Engines in a ferry called the Kalakala located in Port Angeles Washington (http://www.thekalakala.com/). Their main page is (http://www.kalakala.org/).
A recent poster (Jordan Colaso) said to contact a Sulzer Technician- trouble is there aren't any. Does anyone have any info on where I can get some expert advice on rebuilding these behemoth's?
I have worked on a few Derby-Sulzers so I'm assuming the Busch-Sulzer will be the same.
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Charles Holmes
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Posted on Monday, January 03, 2011 - 07:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have seen this Busch-Sulzer, in the Ferry Kalakla, when we were working on trying to get the Fuel Pump/Injection Systems working, when I was at Hatch & Kirk in Seattle. (206-783-2777,..Check with JD, or Chuck,...They may know of someone that can help you on the Engine repair..We stopped working on the Fuel System, when the owner at the time, found out that the engine was siezed, from sitting for a Long time , not running in Kodiak and previous times, etc. Another real interested person, was Clark Dodge, the Director of Marine Engineering Board Member, with the Kalakala Foundation and a Retired, Wash.Sate Ferries Engineer. 206-244-9849,.. clark@burien.net. Good Luck,..Chuck 253-275-7306
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jimmys
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Username: jimmys

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2011
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2011 - 08:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To Steve and Jordon,..
Gear Works in Seattle may be able to make you a new Gear. 206-762-3333,..e-mail: tgw@the gearworks.com,..Web Page: www.thegearworks.com
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jimmys
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Username: jimmys

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2011
Posted on Friday, January 28, 2011 - 01:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just spoke with a friend in Port Angeles and he is interested in helping you with the Busch-Sulzer Engine,in the Kalakala, having experience in may of the Direct Reversable Vintage engines over the years. Contact Mike Evans, with Evans Engine,..(425)238-3313.
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jimmys
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Username: jimmys

Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2011
Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 03:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Applguy...I am just checking to see how you are doing on making contact with the people I have suggested and If I can help anymore?
My parents spent part of there Honeymoon on the Kalakala, trips to Bremerton, in 1941 and I personally will never forgot the Tremendus vibration on the deck, when we came into the landing, in the Fifties. My Dad would say,..O that's normal and she will hold together okay.
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CKing
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Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2015 - 07:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kalakala Troubles
It must have been 1954 or thereabouts. I was a sailor in the US Navy and a grad of the school on diesel engine operation and repair. I was assigned as engineer on a little harbor tug (YTL) stationed at Bremerton (PSNS). The tug pier was at the extreme W end of the yard and therefore we tug boat sailors could watch the Seattle to Bremerton ferries (Kalakala, Enetai, and Willipa) arriving and departing from the ferry pier. These were single ended ferries; they had to approach the pier, stop the direct reversible Busch Sulzer main engine, and then restart in astern and back into the ramp to off-load cars.
After breakfast one morning the phone rang in the YTLs wheel house. We were ordered to get underway and pick up the yard pilot. This we did and the pilot (a gruff old coot who had nothing good to say about engineers) ordered us to proceed W to Blake Island. As we approached Blake we could see the Kalakala bow up on the beach to the point where the keel was in view about the length of the ship. We were one of five Navy tugs on the scene. The USS Tatnuck, a deep sea tug of about 3000 horsepower was tied directly astern of the Kalakala. There were also two large (for that time) YTB harbor tugs of about 1200 HP each, and us and another YTL of about 400 HP each. The YTBs and YTLs attached along both sides of the Kalakala.
The pilot gave his orders via a megaphone. The Tatnuck and all the lesser tugs were pulling for all they were worth when the Kalakala lit off (engine started in astern). I could see just lots of mud stirred up to the surface by the Kalakalas screw. Then the big ferry slowly slid off into deeper water. Our tug and the others cast off and returned to our base. Then came the inevitable bull sessions about how screwed up the captain on the Kalakala must be compared to us smart and skillful Navy sailors. (Sailors are very good at bull sessions.)
We had a brief encore of this experience, sometime later. Again it was first thing in the morning. The Kalakala came into the Bremerton landing, and shut down the Busch Sulzer main engine. But the engine would not restart in astern and so she just kept on sliding thru the water up into the yard. We were ordered to get under way (again with the YTL) to lend assistance. The Kalakala was up close to where the battleships were moored by the time we got a line over to the stern of the ferry. Right then the Kalakala started and the emergency was over. I learned later that the flange on the air starting manifold had blown off, and the Kalakala engineers welded it back on just in time!
This story underscores the safety problem in using a single direct reversible diesel in a passenger ship; especially one making short trips requiring many stops and starts.
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jimmys
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Username: jimmys

Post Number: 50
Registered: 01-2011
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2015 - 08:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cKing,..
Very Interesting Story of Your Experiences, rescuing the Kalakala off of the beach!!
I was in the Coast Guard in the 1960's and helped rescue allot of vessels off of the Westport/Grays Harbor Waters...I have fond memories myself of standing on the rear Deck of the Kalakala, approaching the Dock in Bremerton, with my Dad. This was in the mid 1950's and I asking him,..Why does the Rear Deck Jump up and Down so Much ??
My Dad Answered,..she's really Old Son and needs some restoration/work on her...Come to find out the Propeller Shaft was so far out of allignemnet, that it would vibrate/shake the deck really bad, backing into the Bremerton Dock.
I have talked with Steve Rodrigus many times , trying to sell all the Busch Sultzer Spare parts...Lots of NEW Pistons, Rods, Heads on the
Car Deck and the Engine was Siezed in number three cylinder, per Steve..
She just went to Graving Dock, recently and I was so glad to hear that Salty's Resturant, purchase some of the upper Deck/Superstructure and will be displaying them at there Alki Resturant.
My Mom and Dad spent their Honeymoon in Bremerton,..riding on the Kalakala, in 1941.
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CKing
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Posted on Friday, February 27, 2015 - 04:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jimmys...,
Thank you for your comments. Will any of the pistons, rods, heads or any other engine parts be saved from the scrap and put on display at Saltys resturant or somewhere? There is an interesting museum / junkyard in Winthrop - I think their name is Shafers (or similar). They have Atlas Imperial and other old diesels (even an Atlas Bucyrus - which I had not seen before). They would probably have room for large Busch Sulzer parts. Carl King
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jimmys
Senior Member
Username: jimmys

Post Number: 51
Registered: 01-2011
Posted on Friday, February 27, 2015 - 05:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I seem to remember their was mention of Salty's getting a Piston, Rod and Cylinder Head for their Display,..but when I talked with the Moorage people,..they did not see any of the spare parts on the car deck, before it went to the Marine Graveyard. I will have to check out Shafers and see if they did get at least the engine, plus some of the spare parts. Allot of scrape value in the engine alone!
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David A. King
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Posted on Sunday, March 22, 2015 - 08:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I went to the Rhine Demolition garage sale and purchased the crank and piston for the 6 cyl. Bush Salzer auxiliary engine. Plus a piston for the main engine. Also other Kalakala parts. My Uncle as well purchased many parts. I understand Salty's owner purchased the rudder(32,000 lbs), the crank, a piston and the front half of the wheel house. These will be on display in his parking lot. City of Kirkland purchased many parts. Does anyone know where I can get a picture of the auxiliary or main engine and info? My parts will be displayed at a museum I am opening May 16 in Centralia, Wa. Now it is Lewis county Lumber, In the future it will be KingAgmuseum.com This is a agriculture and logging museum with many tractors and related items.
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jimmys
Senior Member
Username: jimmys

Post Number: 53
Registered: 01-2011
Posted on Monday, March 23, 2015 - 12:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dave Muse, w/Rhine Demolition has some pictures of the Busch-Selzer Engines. 253-606-5547
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david_a_king
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Username: david_a_king

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2015
Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2015 - 02:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What rpm did the main engine on the Kalakala run at?

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