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Technical notes on sizing Schebler Mo...

Old Marine Engine » Carburetors, Mixers, Vaporizors » Technical notes on sizing Schebler Model D carburetors. « Previous Next »

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andrew
Moderator
Username: andrew

Post Number: 984
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 07:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dick Day has submitted the following in Word Format.

Technical note on sizing Schebler Model D carburetors
by Richard A. Day Jr.
12-07-2004


see below...
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george_iv
Senior Member
Username: george_iv

Post Number: 118
Registered: 07-2003


Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 11:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

application/mswordMr. Day's Notes
raday_notes-5681.doc (23.0 k)


Does this work?

George C.
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richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 335
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Worked great for me George. Thanks for the adjustment what ever it was. Computers are beyond my pay grade.
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 654
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 07:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dick

"EXPERIENCE" Is taking the test before having the opportunity to read the chapter!
>
Thanks for These notes of experience !
>
I printed a copy and put it in the box of Schebler Carbs and parts ( my fast reference system ).
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richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 336
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 07:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard I learned about the Model D the hard way and figured might as well pass on what I found out so others don't waste a lot of time figuring out the problem. I was surprised how easy it was to tell once you know the key. Hope it helps.
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wdboat
New member
Username: wdboat

Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 09:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am unable to read "raday notes-5681.doc
All I get is "This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down".
Anyone else having problems or is it my system?
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andrew
Moderator
Username: andrew

Post Number: 986
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 07:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that link to the notes is working okay, but I will paste it below for anyone else that is having trouble viewing it (the formatting may not come out quite right):

quote:

Technical note on sizing Schebler Model D carburetors.
By Richard A. Day Jr.
12-07-2004

There is some confusion determining various sizes of Schebler model D carburetors. The easiest way with a complete carburetor is to simply determine the National Pipe Thread "NPT" size of the Throttle plate. It should be noted that this plate can be mounted either as a side draft or updraft carburetor. The Model D NPT sizes are ", ",1",1-1/4", 1-1/2" and 2". The most common sizes encountered are ",1"and 1-1/4". Note the throat drain on the bowl throat inlet is a small milled slit on the lower face. Do not block this drain with a gasket between the air horn or throttle plate in either the up-draft or side draft application.

When matching up parts from different Model Ds trying to make one good keep in mind that the bowl internal throat diameter will be approximately the size of the intake air horn, throttle plate and bowl cover junctions with the bowl throat. That is a bowl with 1" internal throat diameter will require an air horn with 1" internal diameter, throttle plate with 1" internal diameter and cover with 1" internal diameter. Keep in mind the 1" throttle plate diameter we are talking about is not the pipe-threaded portion, as that would measure approx 1-1/4" diameter. The 1" diameter is the opening where the throttle plate joins the cover throat opening in an updraft configuration or the throat inlet in a side draft application.

The difference in diameter is inside diameter of pipe is only a nominal diameter which is determined by the wall thickness of the pipe. In the case of 1" steel pipe the standard outside diameter is 1.315".

In the case of tubing the diameter is defined as the outside diameter EG. ", 5/16", " ETC.

In the case of brass pipe its dimensions are similar to steel pipe in order that it will mate with threaded iron pipe fittings. For example 1" diameter seamless brass and copper pipe the outside diameter is approximately 1-5/1/6", whereas the exact outside diameter is 1.315".

There is a related matter that involves Schebler model D Knockoffs and there were a number of them, which look very much like the model D. They also work just as well in low speed antique marine engine applications. These makers include Monarch, Michigan Wheel, Acorn Generator Valve, and others. Parts from these makers don't however as a general rule mate up with the Model D.

There are two that come to mind that for all practical purposes came from the same patterns as the Schebler model D. Schebler ceased manufacturing the Model D in the 1930s. Arcadia and Lunenburg Foundry then manufactured the Model D for many years and some of their parts such as the float valve will fit the Schebler model D. It should be noted most of these two makers products have a rough sand cast, unpolished finish but they work just like the original Model D of Schebler. Schebler also stopped polishing the Model D in the early 1930s.

One should note that there are two thread sizes found on the Model D gas line hex nut. 16 Thd or 18 Thd so be careful when trying to mate similar parts from different carburetors.

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wdboat
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Username: wdboat

Post Number: 8
Registered: 08-2003
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 09:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Andrew for posting the notes and thank you Dick Day for sharing your "experience".
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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 441
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 04:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An additional comment or 2. For these carbs used on "show engines" That is slow idle with no load. Set the float level as low as you possibly can. I had all sorts of issues until I started doing this and making sure the gasket for the top was perfect. Preferably use an "o" ring. There is only 1 (one) gasket used on the model "D". This is the center of the top cover. This gasket is at "N" in the pic below. Also the adjustment on the air valve has no effect at closed throttle. Just make sure it has enough tensin on it so it doesn't open with the throttle at idle.
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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 442
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 04:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For those of you that havn't had a chance to completly explore the OME web pages the Model D instructions are located here.
http://www.oldmarineengine.com/technical/carburetor/scheblerD.html
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hugh chalmers
Visitor
Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 06:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please note my inquiry as to the correct sequence of dissambly to change the float on a Schebler. Thanks, need this before I tear it up!! Thanks
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JW
Member
Username: steamup

Post Number: 9
Registered: 07-2006


Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 07:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi -

I have a Schebler on my Hicks, similar to a D, but it is different, and I am not sure how to determine the model. Stamped on the side of the bowl is 'EX25'

It has a 2nd air intake at the bottom of the bowl. I have just added the throttle body, to allow further adjustment under load in the boat...haven't tried it yet. I see that the only gasket recommended is on the central throat, so I will remove the big one from the bowl cover, air horn, and throttle body.

Photos included- last photo shows reason for doing the cleanup LOL! Swallow in the air intake

Thank you-

John Woodson
Bethel Island

Schebler [D?] w/2 air intakes

Schebler [D?] w/2 air intakes - 2

bird sucker
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Searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher

Post Number: 183
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 09:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JW, You have a Schebler Model E introduced in 1907. Redwing ads occasionally show the Model E on their engines in the late teens. My E doesn't have a mark on it other than a tiny triangle under the float valve chamber.

The Model D's are also marked in a very hit or miss (no pun intended) manner. Of maybe 18 Model D's I have in the pile, probably not more than half have any stamped markings on them at all. The markings that are on the D's very much follow the marking scheme on your E, two letters followed by a number, i.e., DX262. Some D's bear a number of stamps. One I have is marked D260 on the intake, DX332 on one side of the bowl, and 11 44 on the other side of the bowl. More often than not there is just a single stamped D. The little triangle also appears on a couple of the D's as well as the E. One D has a throttle plate that is just reverse of all other Scheblers I have ever seen. That one has a very clear J stamped onto the float valve chamber. Those Scheblers with the two letters followed by a number strike me as being later than those with no marks or with very simple marks but there are inconsistencies there too.

Maybe someone will come up with the Schebler equivalent of the Rosetta Stone and then we will know how to decipher the various markings on these things.
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John Archibald
Member
Username: john_archibald

Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2006


Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Folks,

What modern carburetors have been tried with these Acadia, Atlantic 2 -stroke engines?

The Schebler Model D seems to work reasonably well, but I was wondering if anyone has tried something a bit more modern and had any success with it?

Archibald
Northfield, Minnesota
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 623
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Roger,
Your D's with the opposite throttle most likely came from a Gray "R" or "S". They were that way so the Gray throttle linkage was 1 straight rod.
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Searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher

Post Number: 184
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's a great piece of information Ernie. I have an intake manifold with built in check valves for a two cylinder Gray Model R (probably also fits the S)and now, thanks to you, I know I have a carburetor for that engine. So where the heck do I find a two cylinder Gray Model R or S missing the fuel side of things?

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