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Kermath 2 cylinder

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Ralph Walters
Posted on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 09:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Today I bought a Kermath engine. It doesn't have a nameplate, only the name cast on the head. It needs a magneto. Also, I would like any literature that may be available.
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andrew
Posted on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 09:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ralph,

Can you describe it further...?

The "recent" Kermath two cylinder engine was the 2 cylinder Sea Pup, which later became the Atomic 2.

ker_twin
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Bruce
Posted on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 10:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andrew; Do you have info on a single cylinder Kermath of this vintage? It has a transmission and electric start. It's 19" long.
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andrew
Posted on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 10:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bruce,

Does it look like this...
kermath
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Dorman McShan
Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 01:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a Ranger 28 that was fitted with an Atomic 2 that looks very much like the one in your picture. Mine, however, is fitted with a 35 amp alternator instead of a generator. I'm having some problem with oil pressure and haven't been able to find the cause. Would you know if these engines were problematic in this department? Also, are there any parts still around? Thanks in advance.

Dorman McShan
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dave
Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 06:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The single cylinder Kermath was the "Sea Pup" rated at 5 HP and the 2 cylinder version was the "Sea Twin" rated at 10 HP. The later versions of the Sea Pup used a WICO ZH2286 mag while the Sea Twin used a WICO ZH2392. Generators and electric starters were optional.

I have an Instruction Book that covers both published by Ballantine Industries.
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Ralph Walters
Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 07:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the reply. My engine looks like the drawing from Andrew. I was going to try to use a magneto from a twin Wisconsin TFD. It's a F-M X1-2B7.Ralph Looks like the engine isn't all that old. I'll try to get it running anyway. Where can I get gaskets, rings, etc? Dave- I'd like to have a copy of your book, or some of the important pages.
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dave
Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 09:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ralph, if you send me your address I will mail you a copy. If there are additional requests I can scan it in and post it on the bulletin board for download. I can't imagine the copyright is still in effect.

Ralph, what serial number is your Kermath? The engine part number is cast in on the starboard side while the serial number is stamped somewhere around the water pump.

The bore is 2 3/4" and the ring gap clearance is .015" minimum. Rings were available in .005, .010 and .020 oversize. These are pretty standard sizes. I will try and dig up the compression and oil sweeper ring thickness for you.

On the gaskets, start cutting.

The single was built as early as 1938 perhaps earlier. I have documentation on that. They were sold by Universal, Lauson and in Canada by Kermath well into the 50's. Kermath was purchased by Granite State Machine Company and then sold to Universal in 1975. The single was listed for $138 without the options in an undated add I have.

Good luck.
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Ralph Walters
Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 09:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dave-
The number cast in the side is C-17268. The stamped number near the water pump is C 610525.

I'll appreciate the assembly instructions, particularly regarding the oil pump.
Ralph Walters
37 Cepp Rd.
Perkiomenville, PA 18074-9697
Thanks
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dave
Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 08:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK I have copied the manual and it will mail tomorrow.

I also trotted over to the Antique Boat Museum in Clayton and went through their library. They are packing for the big move across the street so it was a real adventure.

I was dead wrong on the vintage of the engine pictured. They did have 5HP engines in 1938 but they were twins.

From what I can see in Kermath literature, and most of it isn't dated the Sea Pup was first introduced as the "16 - 5" in a 1948 letter to their dealers. At the time Kermath was a division of Barium Steel. It was advertised as 5 HP in 16 cu. in. but quickly seems to have become the 1 - 18 (presumably a 1 lunger of 18 cubic inches). It would be interesting to know if there were really any 16 - 5's shipped or if the sales people jumped the gun a little. Weight on the 16 and the later 18 Sea Pup are spec'd the same. and of course the Sea Pup is 18 cu. in. It was named the Sea Pup in a Kermath/Barium, add of 1953. Colors were either Kerry Blue or Red enamel over primer. In 1959 it was still being sold as the Sea Pup by Ballantine Industries of Absecon NJ who had taken over Kermath.

If anyone has a more complete or more accurate account I would appreciate hearing from you.
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dave
Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 04:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One more post. I think you will be able to get a magneto from Bill at BLopoulos@aol.com Good luck.
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Ralph Walters
Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 09:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I recieved a letter (and promptly lost it, don't even remember the name)That said I can't use a FM Wisconsin magneto on the Kermath due to different timing, etc. A correct mag. was offered , but would cost more than $250.00. If I can't find something for around $150, I'll have an engine(sans Ign.) for sale. Can anyone help?
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dave
Posted on Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 12:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ralph, Standard Magneto of Chicago Illinois produces replacements for the original WICO.
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Ernie
Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 08:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

These engines have the weirdest oil system I have seen. There is a little plunger pump for pressure, (not unusual) however to get oil to the rod journal there are 2 internal neoprene seals on the crankshaft that have to be in good condidion for it to work correctly. The engine that I rebuilt was a single, I suspect a twin would have 4 of these seals. If you look at the cutaway pic in the manual you can see them. The mains are ball bearings. So to get oil to the rod there is a hole in the crank next to the main bearing that goes to the rod journal. There is a seal on each side of the hole so oil pressure gets to the rod journal. If any of the seals are hard (leaking) oil pressure will leak and not get to the rod as well as be low. Actually simple just fussy. I had a manual, however I can't find it at this time.
The mag isue....If you can find a mag that will fit, fit means physically mount to the engine and turns the correct direction it will work. On the subject of timing for any of these old engines, THEY ARE NOT FUSSY! Not yelling just being emphatic.
Set the timing so the impulse trips (when the mag snaps) at TDC or just after. Out of hundreds of engines I have never (yet) had one that didn't run just fine.
Hope this helps
Ernie
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Ralph Walters
Posted on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 07:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At long last, I've got my engine together, have a magneto that produces a great spark. Timing is way off. There isn't a timing mark on the gear that drives the magneto. I suppose I could get it close by trial & error as suggested above, but I'd like to get it right on the first time. Any sugestions?
Ralph
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Roy Ostrowsky
Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 10:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looking for Kermath Universal Atomic 2 parts
engine and trans,also literature.
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Roy Ostrowsky
Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 10:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regarding my preveous message,not sure of correct
name but it is the one in the picture presented
by Andrew.
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Roy Ostrowsky
Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 10:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looking for Kermath Sea Twin parts,motor and trans
Will consider most anything
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Roy Ostrowsky
Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looking for Sea Twin parts,Engine and trans.Roy
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Jean Miele
Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 05:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I need an exhaust manifold for my 40hp 1966 universal 4 cyl gas engine
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Mark
Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 08:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How can I test my Mag to see if it's sending enough voltage? I can see a spark across the plug but it seems weak. Is that possible? (new spark plug and wire were just installed)
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JohnC
Visitor
Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 04:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi In 1983 I bought an Atomic 2 Marine Engine
The engine has been in storage for 20 years, it was never installed or use, actually is 20 year old brand new engine. Now I am retired and I want to istall the engine in my sail boat, but the engine is "FROZEN" I took off the sparkplugs and poured
diesel fuel, but no luck. Do you have any idea
of what could I do without putting the engine apart. Any sugestion will be greatly appreciated.
Thak you
John
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andrew
Moderator
Username: andrew

Post Number: 845
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 06:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John,

You should put "penetrating oil" in the cylinder instead of diesel. You can buy a gallon at your local auto parts store... Marvel Mystery Oil or similar. Let the penetrating oil work for a while.

But if it has sat for 20 years you are likely going to have to do a certain amount of disassembly at a minimum. Next step will be to take the head off.
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John C
Visitor
Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 11:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi: Is there some place where I can gat Atomic 2
parts like rings, valves,etec. etc.
Any input will be appreciated. I am rebuilding
my Atomic 2
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mike_stellato
New member
Username: mike_stellato

Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 01:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You might check with Ike Stephenson with Torresen Marine. If you do an internet search, you will find a chandlery in Canada that says it has parts for the Atomic engines. Might even have some "2" parts
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Charles Silvia
Visitor
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Has anyone had any luck finding either parts or owners manuals to the Kermath Universal Atomic 2?

I have one in my 25-foot O’Day and would really appreciate some feel back.
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Charles Silvia
Visitor
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 02:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That should have beed feedback
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John Jordan
Visitor
Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 01:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am trying to put together this Atomic 2 Engine
I have several problems; One is that the engine
has one water inlet and outlet bisides the one
on the water pump the one that goes into the engine. The the inlet and outlet I am referring is located behind the fuel pump and is a T type. Another problem is that I dont know where the Oil sender goes and last
I want to be sure that the temp sender is located
on the same water overflow line that goes to the exhaust. If some body can help me with my problem
I would appreciate very much. Thank you
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john_anthony
New member
Username: john_anthony

Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 07:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He is the "Engine" Atomic 2 10HP. But I dont know what is the part on the right of the carburator. Has one inlet one outlet and a plug in the midle. Is this part has to do anything with the cooler
system? Because as you can see the engine has olso a Oberdofer water pump with one intake and
one out let (The hose that goes into the engine block). If some body knows about this part please
let me know.
Thank you
John AnthonyPicture

Editor's Note: John is going to try to post a better picture
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john_anthony
New member
Username: john_anthony

Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 04:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is the new PicturePicture
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john_anthony
New member
Username: john_anthony

Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 11:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is this a Dole Thermostat. If it is Do you know is The Dole Company is still in business or where
I could get an installation manual.
Thank you
John Anthony Picture
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L. Hughston
Visitor
Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 02:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a Kermath single. This is an early version with the name "Edison" cast into the magneto cap. I have no spark on the magneto. I had opened the magneto and the sring was released when I pulled off the drive cover on the gear side. I carefully put it back together. All was reassembled per Kermath manual. What am i doing wrong with the magneto? ---Larry Hughston
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richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 467
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 03:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John, That thermostat housing is so similar to the inline DOLE I suspect it is a Dole. I tried to track Dole down and got nowhere but the thermostat for the Dole unit similar to the unit on your engine is listed in some one of the entryies on the OME page. If you plan to run in salt water get a 143 degree thermostat. A 165 degree would be fine for fresh water. If that is a new engine don't cool with salt water. Cool with a 50:50 mix of fresh water with automotive anti freeze and use a keel cooler or heat exchanger for the engine including the exhaust manifold. Send the sea water down the exhaust pipe aft of the manifold to cool and quiet the exhaust.
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john_anthony
Member
Username: john_anthony

Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 01:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thak you Richard for your information. Now asuming this is a Dole thermostat to what I do connect the inlet?. Because I also have an inlet in de Oberdofer water pump. Also you have give me idias about a fresh water system and because I see your Palmer Logo I asume you are en the Marine Engine Busines and as I don not want to abuse of your kindness. I would like to kow if you sell any information or Book in which I can read about a fresh water system.
Thank you again
John Anthony
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richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 469
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 08:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John I am not in business I just have a hobby collecting Palmer marine engines and writing about them. Send me a mailing adress and I will put some material in the mail for you. The basic way the dole Thermostat works is it returns a percentage of the cooling water back to the input to the cold water inlet from the seacock or heat exchanger if that is used. It in effects keeps the hot water from rising above whatever temp the thermostat is set for.
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john_anthony
Member
Username: john_anthony

Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 02:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard my E-Mail address is jcjordan@cvip.net
Thank you very much.
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poker casino79
Visitor
Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 01:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

poker casino poker 319
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Michael Keane
New member
Username: walkintee

Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 02:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a Kermath Sea Pup 5 hp in my sailboat and have oil blowing out the transmission breather tube. Anybody know why? Is there someone who fixes these things or even sells parts?

Michael

walkintee@aol.com
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Joe Holmes
Member
Username: joe_h

Post Number: 13
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 02:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Try Danny at M&M Surplus

info@mandmsurplus.com
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Eric Ihli
New member
Username: eihli

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 12:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If there is any literature still floating around on this, would anyone mind emailing it to radiopassive@gmail.com please?

Thanks a million.
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CHARLES G. FISCHER
Visitor
Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2012 - 09:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HOW DO I SET THE TIMING GEAR ON THE ATOMIC 2? THERE ARE NO MARKS. I HAVE THE WICO XH MAGNETO INSTRUCTION MANUAL, BUT IT ASSUMES THE TIMING GEAR IS INSTALLED CORRECTLY. SOMEBODY HAS MUCKED WITH THIS ENGINE AND MAGNETO.
THANKS

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