Home | Classifieds | History | Technical | Links | Store | About Us | Email
Topics Topics Edit Profile Profile Help/Instructions Help Member List Register  
Search Last 1|3|7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  

Electronic ignition on P6 coil eingine

Old Marine Engine » Stuart Turner » Electronic ignition on P6 coil eingine « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Floyd Hauffe
Member
Username: floydh

Post Number: 9
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 01:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Has anyone ever replaced the points and condenser with an electronic ignition? What is out there? What fits? What is best?

Thanks,
Floyd
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

George Martin
Visitor
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 08:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would be interested if there is anything available, because I have just designed and made up a CDI unit which works really great.
Power consumprion is approx 200mA @ 13v and produces a cracking spark.
Flushed with success I designed a twin type, but have not built that yet because I do not have an immediate use for it.
Pick-up is hall effect and simple implementation.
If anyone wants the schematic etc its all free.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Floyd Hauffe
Member
Username: floydh

Post Number: 10
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 11:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

George, thanks. I'm interested in your design. would you please email it to fhauffe@bellsouth.net.
I talked to a technical type at Petronix, yesterday.

http://www.pertronix.com/default.aspx

He said their ignitor would work if I was willing to jury rig the installation. He suggested getting kit 1121. 1121 is designed for a two cylinder engine. I don't know if this will produce a waste spark or not. I'm going to research this a little more.

floyd
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David Myers
Senior Member
Username: dave_myers

Post Number: 72
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 04:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi George, Would also like a copy please. I have twin coil ignition on my P5 and would like to try electronic system.

davem@exemail.com.au

Cheers,
Dave. Lake Macquarie NSW OZ
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mark S
Senior Member
Username: marks

Post Number: 105
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 01:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

David, Floyd and George,

I've used these off the shelf units, though not on a Stuart.

http://www.dlenginesaustralia.com/dlshop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=124

http://www.dlenginesaustralia.com/dlshop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=102

They are small enough to fit inside a Wico A mag body and cap. Obviously they behave like an impulse and make starting by hand on the flywheel simple.

Timing is by a small (1/8" dia) magnet on the flywheel or any other rotating part. So just move the magnet till you get the timing right and a small dob of epoxy to secure when done.

The price is right and a small rechargeable battery pack lasts a long time. Great if you are missing parts off the maggy drive or mounting.

I have also rewound the primary of a "dead" mag to get @20v AC off a couple hundred turns of magnet wire. Add a rectifier and voltage control and you basically have an electronic mag.

Cheers,

Mark S.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

George Martin
Visitor
Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 09:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That looks really good, also has the advantage of automatic advance.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mark S
Senior Member
Username: marks

Post Number: 106
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 07:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi George,

As far as I can ascertain the advance doesn't start until about 1,200rpm, although I haven't tested. The types of engines that these are usually used on spin in the area of 12,000-20,000rpm so I don't think the advance is really relevant in our case.

One thing I have noticed is that they retard the spark for easier starting. I don't know by how much. The "sympton" of this is that the engine starts every time running well but will sound rough and stop within a second or two. So timing is a bit of trial and error although I have now settled on an initial setting of 28 degrees BTDC.

One mod that you need to do with these is extend the plug cap to touch the plug body as earth is the outside braid on the plug lead. I have a few pieces of flared copper tube to suit different plug types at the moment but will make something a bit better asthetically when time permits.

If you need to extend the plug lead length buy a new plug cap from the same site, they are 2 part and snap together. I've used a piece of coax for a new lead with the inside braid as the earth and joined to the existing lead and a bit of heat shrink tube to cover the join. It's probably possible to take the unit apart and join a new lead to the internal coil but I haven't tried this yet.

Regards,

Mark S.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Floyd Hauffe
Member
Username: floydh

Post Number: 12
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Monday, July 27, 2009 - 11:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks all for all the good info. My engine does not have a magneto. I have a 12v system with a dynastart, battery, coil, condenser, and points. The points and condenser are located in a housing to the rear of the fuel and water pump. The same shaft that drives the fuel and water pumps also rotates a cam that triggers the points. My first choice would be a device that would replace the points and be triggered by the same shaft that the existing points use.

There are a number of devices designed to be used at the flywheel. Most of these can't be used with a battery. Is this true with the dlengine one?

thanks
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

George Martin
Visitor
Posted on Monday, July 27, 2009 - 03:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Had a look at the dlengine devices and they should work fine. They appear to need 6v max so a small regulator would need to be installed, thats a 2 component circuit. The twin unit seems to use one hall pickup and calculates the 2 timing pulses from that. I guess the alternator used on some is to dispence with the battery, but you still need a battery to start it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Floyd Hauffe
Member
Username: floydh

Post Number: 13
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 05:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I took a chance and purchased a Pertronix Ignitor electronic ignition for my P6. I got part 1847V which is designed for a 4 cylinder VW. I had to remove three of the magnets from the sleeve which turned out to be quit simple. The biggest problem was attaching the sleeve to the shaft. After a lot of thinking, I came up with solution that was relatively simple to implement. I won't go into it here, but if anyone is interested in doing the same, I'd be glad to describe it.

Bottom line - it works great.

Thanks,

Floyd
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Floyd Hauffe
Member
Username: floydh

Post Number: 15
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 10:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a picture of the Pertronix Ignitor installation on my P6.
P6 Ignitor installation
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ed Morris
Visitor
Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 06:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Glad to hear it works well. I would be interested in doing something similar with my P6 - it would be useful to learn how you fitted the sleeve.

Ed
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Floyd Hauffe
Member
Username: floydh

Post Number: 16
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 01:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Basically, I flipped the sleeve end for end. The magnet collar fits snugly over the part of sleeve with the tapered hole (a conic section). This tapered hole originally mated with the tapered rotating shaft.

I placed the end of the sleeve with the cam over the tapered shaft. The hole on this end is cylindrical.

In order to make it mate with the tapered shaft I had to construct a mating surface that fits in the cylinder. I did this with West System Epoxy mixed with their high density filler. The trick in this is to be sure that the epoxy mix does not stick to anything that you don't intend it to stick to. Use wax as a mold release agent. Use masking tape to keep the epoxy mix off anything else. In my case I waxed the tapered shaft,the threaded hole in the shaft, and the screw that holds the sleeve to the shaft. I placed the screw into the tapered end of the sleeve so that the threads were exposed in in the hole on the cam end. Next I partially filled the hole with a peanut butter consistency epoxy mix. I tried to get enough in the hole to fill the gap without getting any on the end of the screw. I then slid sleeve over the assembly enough to start the screw. I wiped up the excess epoxy mix as I snugged up the screw.

The next part is critical. Watch the epoxy as it sets up. You want to catch it after it has started to "kick" but before it reached full cure. The best point is after the mix is quite rigid but still slightly elastic. At this point unscrew the screw and remove the collar. Remove any excess epoxy mix. Let the epoxy harden your sleeve is now ready.

I don't think it matters much if things are somewhat misaligned. There is no physical contact between the magnetic collar and the pickup.

Email me if you have more questions.

Floyd
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hugo Derrick
Member
Username: hello

Post Number: 13
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 03:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chaps -

Came across this (rather natty) electronic CD ignition system - worth considering...

http://www.edstroementerprises.com/jep/runintro12.htm

http://www.westonuk.co.uk/westonuk2_073.htm

Regards,

H.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

russell banks
New member
Username: russell_henry

Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2010
Posted on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 05:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

does anyone know which points are suitable for a stuart turner p600d, engine number; 23b155
regards russ
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Edward Parker-Jervis
New member
Username: swyn

Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Monday, April 05, 2010 - 09:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have fitted a Boyer Bransden ignition to my P66. A pair of Dyna performance coils, Magnecor leads and plug caps. Plus spending a whole day on the Amal carbie, working out the correct slide size and needle setting.
The Boyer ignition system is from the two cylinder motorcycle world, aimed at older Triumph and BSA engines. I had a little aluminium disk made to mount this unit into the housing where the points plate normally lives.
I have been running this complete system without problems now for five years after a series of condensor breakdowns and points failures before that. Total reliability, good fuel economy and much increased power. The engine now performs like a two-stroke should! 8+ knots from a 21' LOA. 1936, ex fishing vessel.

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a public posting area. Enter your username and password if you have an account. Otherwise, enter your full name as your username and leave the password blank. Your e-mail address is optional.
Password:
E-mail:
Options: Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Administration Administration Log Out Log Out   Previous Page Previous Page Next Page Next Page

Home | Classifieds | History | Technical | Links | Store | About Us | Email
&copy 2005 OldMarineEngine.com, P.O. Box 188, Forest Dale, VT 05745-0188 • Phone: 802-247-4864 • All rights reserved.
   Marine Engine Seloc Repair Manual Lookup Tool

marine gas engine repair and restoration