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Caille inboard

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Randy Kallevig
Posted on Friday, April 09, 2004 - 01:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello,
I would like to get some information about a Caille inboard motor. There is one pictured just like the one I have in a post on this message board from April 5, 2002 titled "Caille Perfection Single".

I have alot of Caille literature, but nothing I have shows an inboard motor with the square style exhaust manifold. I would appreciate any information.

I would also like to contact any "Caille expert" on inboard motors especially about serial numbers. I'm doing extensive research on Caille outboards and would appreciate any help I can get.

Please email me directly at:

desmo@johnroberts.com

Thanks in advance,

Randy Kallevig
AOMCI Caille Special Interest Group leader
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solarrog
Senior Member
Username: solarrog

Post Number: 149
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 10:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Randy I have posted your pictures link for you.

Any information on dating these will be of great help, contact Randy direct

http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1659491&a=31672891&f=

Roger DiRuscio
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 725
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 08:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Notes on old Caille's
1906 had mounting plate on bottom of crankshaft housing.
1907 lever timer, mounts at crankshaft level,wet exhaust manifold square shape attached to top of cyl casting.In Detroit at this time there was a large group of mfgrs owned by Hugo Scherer and F.E Wadsworth, this conglomerate included Thrall Motor Co, Detroit Engine Works, Columbia Engine Co., Detroit Motor Car Supply Co.( Sandow), Termaat & Monahan, Caille Perfection, Detroit Gear,Boat mfgrs and many others. Most of these engines had their beginnings with a very similar design and castings which included the box like exhaust manifold.( A study of this Conglomerate would be a great history project, production at the time was prolific and many of these old timers are still with us ).

1907 caille ad

C7


1908 ad

C8


By 1910 the more conventional design wet exhaust manifold is used.

C10
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 1228
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 01:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With the information that is accumulating on this group -Sherer & Wadsworth- I now refer to them as the Jefferson Avenue Conglomerate.
when I type Detroit Jefferson ave. into my data base it brings up 14 different marine engine mfgrs names from 1900 to 1920. Ten of these companies start their name with the word DETROIT!
In those days when articles were written about this Avenue it was affectionately referred to as
"Motor Boat Lane"
I believe there were other mfgrs than the ones named in above post but still accumulating info.
Thrall Motor Co. comes to mind even though it did not share any of the physical traits of most of these eng mfgrs .
The 1907 Caille ad in above post certainly looks like a middleditch wet exhaust and cylinder design to me? 4 hole flywheel and grease cup on crankshaft end --- maybe its a Termaat Monahan ??
I have notes on other subjects and questions here but will do that on a future post.
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 1230
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 10:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most of this info I have posted before But I agree its getting difficult to go back and search for it not knowing what different headings its under, and now I'm compounding it by answering a post on a diffrerent post ???

My information comes from the notes that I have accumulated when reading many different sources, I let them tell the story as they unfold.
About middleditch and patents I have no notes and so am not sure that these conglomerate engines are indeed his specific design or exactly were this commonality of design came from.

Notes on Termaat & Monahan tell me that 1902-04 engines had removable heads- solid flywheels, their 1906 catalog shows the completely different new design that is this universal Detroit engine, headless with the common wet exhaust manifold. As fast as the technology of the day was progressing i would say that this new design was probably brought about in 04-05 and patented in 1906 ?

1906 Termaat-Monahan single from their catalog ( to me it looks exactly like the Caille 1907 ad in above post ??) and reference to the Exhaust patent.

TM06


TM106
TM206

More to come !
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Searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher

Post Number: 148
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 10:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The following information was taken directly off the float chamber cover of a two piece injector used on Detroit family engines.

GASOLINE, KEROSENE, DISTILLATE, NAPTHA, ALCOHOL
PATENTED JULY 6, 1909

THE PETERSON AUTOMATIC FUEL INJECTOR
FOR TWO CYCLE ENGINES
MF'D BY BEN'J. MIDDLEDITCH, DETROIT, MICH., USA
FOR DETROIT ENGINE WORKS

I have not looked up the patent yet. Typically, there are six or seven hundred patents issued on any given date so it takes a while to sort through them. The MF'D FOR DETROIT ENGINE WORKS might indicate that Middleditch's involvment was only with the fuel injector, not the Detroit engines themselves. I will do some more research.
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John Davis
Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 28
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 12:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If anyone is interested I have already sorted out the patents pertaining to this injector and other Detroit injectors if you would like to see the patents go to the URL address below. You will need a Tif image viewer to view all the older patents on my page or the US patent office website. You can down load a viewer at the URL I have listed below. Also if you go to the other URLs below you will find information on some of the engines you have been talking about.

http://www.antiquengines.com/DEW%202%20Cycle_stationary_literature.htm
http://www.antiquengines.com/Engine_Spec's_Restoration_Information.htm
http://www.antiquengines.com/DEW_History.htm

Main Menu
http://www.antiquengines.com/Detroit_Engine_Works_Menu.htm

Regards
John Davis
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 463
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 08:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John,
Your web page is really a great resource. I have it in my favorites and refer to it often. The information was a big help in making a fuel injector out of other fuel system parts for a little Detroit stationary that I have. Also the ads, brochures and letterheads are really neat.

Thanks for puttiing the information on the net.
Ernie
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Searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher

Post Number: 150
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 05:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John,

I have been to your site but missed the neat information you provided in the three files above. However, the history and literature files worked fine but I couldn't get into the SPEC file. I keep getting a "Page could not be found" message. Thanks for posting this information.
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John Davis
Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 30
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 06:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Searcher,

I went and checked out the Engine Spec link to my website and ever thing looks fine. I was able to link to it with no problem. I'm not sure why you can't. I tried it using internet explore and Mozzila FireFox and they worked fine. Maybe someone else can try and see if it works for them. That it a very informative page about Detroit Engines and the low pressure fuel injectors by the way.

I'm glad that collectors are getting information from my website that is helping them. Thats what this hobby is all about helping each other and having fun.

Thank's

John
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Andrew Menkart
Moderator
Username: andrew

Post Number: 725
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 07:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Searcher,

You can try John's link again from the post above and it should work. The link was broken in that post but I fixed it.

BTW John, it not good practice to include a character such as a " ' " in a file name. Some browsers might have trouble with it. Best to stick to letters and numbers and join words with a "-" or an "_".
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Searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher

Post Number: 151
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 10:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Works just fine now Andrew, thanks.

Great stuff John. The photos of the non return air intake valve looked familiar and then it dawned on me that I sent those photos to you quite a while ago now. Wondered if you ever got them.
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John Davis
Advanced Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 32
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 11:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank's Andrew & Hugh,

I checked the link on my website, Didn't think about the link being bad on this site. Blind in one eye and can't see out of the other I guess.

Hugh,
I edited those non-return valve photos to give you guys credit for donating them. Sorry I forgot...

John
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Searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher

Post Number: 152
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 12:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John,
I have only seen perhaps four of the two piece Peterson/Middleditch injectors that were used on the Detroit family of engines. I admit that isn't much of a sample but the injector portion of all four has been identical to the injector photos you have posted on your web site. Here is an injector that I picked up that has the same July 6, 1909 patent date as the Peterson/Middleditch injectors. There is a 1 just below the date, I assume that is a size number?. This one is a bit rough and the needle valve isn't original but I was tickled to find it nonetheless. It is quite different from the other four injectors I have seen and has a 3/8" thread rather than the 1/4" thread that the others have had. The injector tube is quite long so there must have been an intervening piece of pipe between the injector body and the engine, or, maybe this injector was for some other purpose?


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Roger DiRuscio
Senior Member
Username: solarrog

Post Number: 192
Registered: 03-2002


Posted on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 01:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

all this talk about injectors reminds me of this Sandow I bought out of the palm Desert a few years ago.
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1659491&a=32006548&f=

I saw one of these somewhere running a gen-set
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John Davis
Advanced Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 33
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 09:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hugh,

I have never seen a injector like that for the Detroit family of engines. It may be original or someone may have been missing a injector for their engine and had it machined and then stamped the patent date in it. You just never know.


Roger,

Nice engine, you don't see a lot of that style injector. Did you ever find a serial number on your engine? The Sandow Gen-Set you saw was probably Tom Schoolcraft's.

Regards
John
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Roger White
Visitor
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 06:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a Wards Hiawatha Outboard aprox. 1915-1916 need info, parts, etc.
Made by Caille?
Parts Needed: Fly Wheel, Points.
Call Roger 810-694-9450
AOMC/ Member..Grand Blanc, Michigan
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Roger DiRuscio
Senior Member
Username: solarrog

Post Number: 264
Registered: 03-2002


Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 07:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In the teens Caille bought magnetos from Evinrude
That could mean that the taper and keyway could be interchangeable. A little more research on your part may make this work
Good luck with it, that was a good find

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