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1916 Cryer Carvel Tug Boat with Atlas...

Old Marine Engine » Boats with Early Inboards » 1916 Cryer Carvel Tug Boat with Atlas Imperial 4HM1021 Diesel « Previous Next »

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mslisaj
New member
Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2013 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am helping a good friend with her late father's tug boat. Up until 11 years ago this was a beautiful and running tug. It's a 73" LO and 146' Beam wooden hulled craft. When the owner died the boat was left tired to the dock and not moved. About 6 years ago the tug was swamped by a larger passing boat and sank. It was in the water less then 24 hours before it was pumped out and raised. At this time everything was thoroughly washed down and dried out. The fluids in the engine were changed and the engine started. After a successful run and warm-up it was shut down and opened up to the air. Everything was coated with oil to prevent rust and it hasn't moved since.

After hearing this story and being assured that the entire vessel was junk I went down and checked it out. The bilges are clean and dry. No rust on the engine although I didn't bar it over. All the engine accessories are still there and in place. Flush out the fuel system, add oil and water and this would run. The boat has the usual appearance of neglect from lack of care and the weather over the last 11 years but it is clean, dry and sound. The engine has no rust and is dry and sound also.

Here is my question. Is this vessel worth rescue and saving? Even if the hull is not worth saving I feel the entire engine and all it's associated accessories are worth the salvage. What do you think?

This craft was built for the Alaska Packers in 1916 and is presently docked in Richmond, California. It's name is the Raven and the boat is all there with all its accessories.

Being I am not a boat expert at all I would value any and all comments or questions. I would hate to see this once proud vessel and this very complete and intriguing engine go to scrap.

Thank you all for your responses.

Lisa
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johnoxley
Senior Member
Username: johnoxley

Post Number: 78
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2013 - 07:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Complicated.

If a modern surveyor looks at the hull and engine they will say "OMG It is all too hard/expensive". Probably true if the boat does need work and you pay commercial yards to do the work.

An enthusiast to adopt the project is needed and they need to understand what they are looking at.
You said carvel hull - What timber for planking and frames. Then iron/steel fastenings or copper/bronze. Suspect the former. What are the shelf beams, stringers and floors like?

Needs a good wooden SHIP surveyor who is local and understands.

The engine is another matter. There are people who would build an entire hull just to house this engine. It is rare and prized, but an ordinary person will have trouble just running it because it is first generation common rail injection (post air blast and pre modern injection systems).

Maybe this forum can suggest someone to advise that is closer than me.

Any photos?
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 560
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2013 - 07:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you want mechanical advice on the engine or wish to sell the vessel or engine, I suggest you contact Old Tacoma Marine in WA. They are on the web, specialize in early engines such as this and could probably suggest ways to find a buyer who would appreciate both the hull and engine and the history of the vessel. Keep us posted please.
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2013 - 08:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Mr. Noxley and Robert for your replies. The boat was surveyed about 15 years ago and it was an extremely positive report. I believe one of the comments was something to the effect it was built like a locomotive. But now I understand a comment the surveyor made with regards to the "Carvel Hull". The iron/steel hull fasteners were rusted and needed attention in the future was the note. We didn't understand that but now it makes perfect sense. As I had mentioned I have no experience with boats but the engine is what thrills me and that is or could be the true prize. I know all about the engine as I am a mechanic by trade. So I see what that is. I totally agree that the "project needs to be adopted" by someone that can appreciate both aspects. I'm talking about a complete tug boat that has time for an enemy.

I have sent an email to Old Tacoma Marine and have not received a response yet but I truly want to see this vessel get into a good home.

Thank you gentlemen sincerely for taking your time to give your thoughts and advice here. I'll get pictures up in a couple of days and I will keep you posted for sure.

Sincerely thank you.

Lisa
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 561
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2013 - 09:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for getting back to us. You might want to call Old Tacoma Marine; probably faster and easier than emails. These engines are in fact very economical to run in view of their moderate fuel consumption and great reliability. I'm only repeating what I have read and heard of course; if you were to contact George Coates through this site, he owns such an engine in a steel tug IIRC. I've spoken to a couple of people who own old tugs and both were very happy with their old engines for the above reasons, aside from their low noise and vibration levels, and fascinating appearance. When such engines are removed from vessels that were designed for them tons of ballast have to be added to replace the weight lost. For a pleasure or charter boat, better to leave them where they are. If a buyer cannot be found, another option might be the creation of a non-profit society to preserve and run the vessel. This allows many financial benefits obviously, while allowing people who love such boats and engines but cannot afford to own one, to participate in the operation and preservation as a group. The steam tug "Master" in Vancouver BC is an example of this.
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gregoryan
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Username: gregoryan

Post Number: 105
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2013 - 09:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Be sure to post a pic of yourself with the tug :-) a Female Mechanic whom gets thrills from old marine engines?! Oh yeah!
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douglas
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Username: douglas

Post Number: 29
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2013 - 10:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Having had a bit of experience with West Coast common-rail diesels, I'd say they're very nice shipmates. They require periodic hand oiling and sensible maintenance, given which they're reliable and economical. Parts can be a problem, of course.
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2013 - 10:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good day gentlemen, I just attempted to post some pictures that were taken of the vessel, engine and me and they were too large. I guess in two weeks when I get back to the boat I'll turn the resolution way down on my camera and try it again. While I can work on that engine and make it run this computer tech stuff still throws me. So I hope I can get the picture thing done.

Thanks again for all your help and comments.

Lisa
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richarddurgee
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Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3023
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2013 - 12:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*
Lisa

Click on my name at the left it will give you my email address, email photos to me I'll size and post them !

*
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mslisaj
Member
Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Sunday, May 05, 2013 - 08:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you so much. I so appreciate it and the photo's are on their way. Good luck!

Lisa
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richarddurgee
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Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3024
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Sunday, May 05, 2013 - 12:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*
Lisa's Photos

1


2


3


4


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solarrog
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Username: solarrog

Post Number: 540
Registered: 03-2002


Posted on Sunday, May 05, 2013 - 01:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

VERY COOL, ITS ONLY 30 MINUTES FROM ME.
I wish I had deeper pockets to take on a project like this
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 5
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Monday, May 06, 2013 - 08:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think it's a matter of deep pockets but just the matter of time and a place to work on it. The poor vessel just needs some love and attention. As I stressed in my original post this boat is completely together. It's all there and the details are amazing. I personally would love to have it but it's size is overwhelming to me and I have no place to work on something this large but there are folks that do have the space and that is who I am trying to reach and find this boat a good home where she won't be scrapped.
Thanks again Mr. Durgee for resizing and posting my pictures for me. So appreciate your effort and time there.

Sincerely,

Lisa
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 562
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Monday, May 06, 2013 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are people out there who would love to have a vessel and engine like this, you just need to find them, if you want an individual buyer. A clear and concise history of the vessel and engine, plans & specifications of the hull and engine, the latest survey report etc. is what you need to advertise her properly. Classic or wooden boat forums online would also be a good place to start. Sadly there are people in the wooden boat world who would lovingly restore the boat, pull the engine and put in a Cat. or an Isuzu, but there are other people with more sense in that world as well. Since she has a Pacific Northwest and Alaskan history, you should try to reach those areas in your advertising. It would be good to post some further photos here also.
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Monday, May 06, 2013 - 10:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Robert for the feedback. From what I have read the Atlas is truly an economical engine and the way to go. Could you channel me to other forums? I discovered this one by accident and all you been have been very good to me with providing fantastic feedback. My true goal is to find this craft a home. The money part of it for my friend is truly secondary. This is truly about adopting a project.

Thanks again Robert for the advice.

Sincerely,

Lisa
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 7
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Monday, May 06, 2013 - 10:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

P.S. More pictures will be coming when I get back to California next week.
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 563
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 02:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lisa, I'll mail you a few links in the next few days. I would gather all the documents and photos your friend has, and get her to make notes on what she knows that is not covered by the documents and photos. Wooden Boat Magazine has a forum on their website which is probably the largest and best on the Net. You could also advertise the boat in that magazine. You could even write an article on her and submit it for publication, but then you'd probably have to hold an auction! These are very "green" engines in everything except perhaps their emissions and that is an area you could explore in such an article. Biodiesel does a great job of cleaning out fuel systems by the way, and is much more "slippery" than ultra low sulpher diesel. An engine like this would love the stuff!
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 09:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well my friend has a bunch of documents including the last survey that is quite interesting. She also has some old pictures too. The more she digs through the file the more info she seems to have. So I'll have her start laying out all that and scanning it too. I can't do much until I get back to Calif. But next week I'll even give the guy in Tacoma a call too.

Thanks again Robert for all the information and thanks again to all the men that have weighed in on this discussion and help. Got to find this old girl a home...........

Lisa
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boatbum
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Username: boatbum

Post Number: 24
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lisa,

I have a boat with a 1929, 6cyl, 140Hp, direct reversing 6hm681 Atlas Imperial in it. She's berthed in the far Norther California. I live in Sacramento, and would be willing to help you and your friend get the Atlas on her boat running. This would make her much more likely to sell, vs a non running boat. I have 9 videos of my engine running on my youtube channel: biteme1167

PM me or write back if you are interested in me looking the engine/boat over for you.

Keith
Master M.V. Arcturus
Atlas Imperial Powered.
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richarddurgee
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Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3033
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2013 - 11:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*
Lisa's additional photos and Survey.


1

2

31

3a

3b


Survey of "RAVEN"

s1

s2

s2a


s3
s3a


s4

s4a


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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 9
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2013 - 12:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Richard for posting this information for me. I just can't seem to get the hang of posting the correct file size. But thank you for handling this for me.

Lisa
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tom
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Username: tom

Post Number: 29
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2013 - 03:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A nice looking boat and interesting engine, Hope it finds a good home.
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 10
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2013 - 08:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Raven,



















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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2013 - 09:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I got to the Raven today as promised and got a load of pictures as you see here. I brought a friend and we really crawled around and lifted boards and got into the stern well. There is about six inches of water standing around the prop gland and back bilge area but the water was sweet like rain water so I'm confirming there are no leaks. There are some soft planks at the water line but the bottom and keel are very solid. Also confirmed that the boat has new electric bow thrusters in her too. Amazing installation.

The last time the boat was actually motored around the SF bay was eight years ago. The more I look at her the more amazed I am. Cute kitchen too and there is even a bathroom aboard.

All the engine and transmission controls are air operated with very delicate controls in the wheel house. She's all there.

For you folks that live close to Richmond California and would like to see it my friend will be with the boat this Sunday May26th thru June 1st and could show it. Just send me a private note and I can set up a tour.

Thanks for all the help.

Lisa
















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searcher
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Username: searcher

Post Number: 564
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2013 - 09:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, I sure wish I had the resources and the time left to take that project on.
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dmontalbano
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Username: dmontalbano

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 12:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello all I am interested in taking Raven On as a project, I am the friend that mslisaj mentioned in her post earlier I have the ability to do the labor necessary to restoring her, however the issue is that the current owner has to have her moved from her berth by the middle of next month at the latest and I sadly do not have the funds right this second (due to the fact that I am a student and my summer job has not started yet) to fund this move completely in such a short amount of time, by the end of the summer yes, but not right now. I was wondering if any posters on here would be interested in forming a partnership to do the restoration on her?
or if anyone on the forum knows of anyone who might be interested because it is down to the wire at this point and time is running out thank you all for your replies!
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 571
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 10:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As I said before, form a non-profit dedicated to the preservation of this vessel; she is historic enough to warrant it, in my opinion, and the benefits are great financially. A proper, registered society provides the mechanism for giving tax receipts for donations of money & material, moorage,labour - you name it! Yes, it does require a bit of time spent on paperwork and in meetings, but the benefits make that well worthwhile IMO. When groups of "interested" people get together on projects like this tensions can arise and a proper organization provides the mechanism for resolving those and to a large extent preventing them, if there is good communication and effective leadership. A rich man can do what he wants when he wants, but for those of us who can't afford to own the whole shootin' match, but would like to be involved in something like this, a non-profit is the way to go. Too far from me unfortunately! Carpe navis gentlemen!
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 572
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 11:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The other very important aspect of a society is continuity. People come and go, their interests change, their personal commitments change, etc. etc.

If there is a society with a group of people it doesn't all depend on one person's choices or lifestyle.

A much better chance of the vessel being preserved properly.
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j_ziegler
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Username: j_ziegler

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2012
Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 12:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like a plan Robert but upon completion who gets the boat and where does it go ?
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 573
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 12:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The boat remains the property of the society, it's use and disposition being decided by a majority vote of the members of the society in accordance with whatever the CA regulations are for non-profits, and the adopted constitution of the society.

It's easy to make beginning groups like this a sort of "boy's club" but the problem is that groups that are run that way do not establish credibility and as a result do not attract public or corporate support or membership.
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dmontalbano
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Username: dmontalbano

Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 04:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is a very good point! Thank you Robert, I will have to research how to go about setting up an organization, and then I would have to find people willing to join it and also put down money in a short amount of time! like I said the issue sadly is a very very short time frame that everything has to come together...say about 3 weeks
Ill look into forming a non profit today though thanks so much!
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 575
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Saturday, May 25, 2013 - 01:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, if you're the guy who is going to make it happen, great. I would see if you can find a retired marine engineer or two who might like to guide the enthusiasm and labor of the younger guys, preferably someone who knows and loves these old engines. Ask around anywhere you can; those people are out there, but fewer and fewer all the time of course.

When you mention you're a student I'm sure we all think to ourselves, "how is this guy ever going to do it?", but where there's a will there's a way, especially if there isn't a significant other in the way!

If your honest and over-riding goal is the preservation of the vessel, that will communicate itself to people and open doors for you, IMO. The opposite of course is true as well.

The local Sea Scouts, a local community college that teaches marine engineering or heavy duty mechanics, the S.F. Martime Museum...there are so many places in that area you could find like-minded people and people who might want to join in and help or contribute.

Very few people are going to want to help someone who is simply looking for a way to get some cheap help with "their boat", so someone who is unable or unwilling to step back enough to accept guidance, work with other people and be as much an Indian as a chief isn't right for this kind of role.

Just something to think about before "casting off the lines", so to speak!

Maybe you should take a year or two off from school?
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dmontalbano
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Username: dmontalbano

Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Saturday, May 25, 2013 - 02:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I truly do want to do anything and everything I can to save her, I am good at using my resources (where i can find them) I have some friends who can help, both from the Jeremiah Obrien (where I am an engineering volunteer) and also from my other life shoreside. I have no significant other and even if I did I probably wouldnt after I took on a project like this hahahaha. I am a student but not for much longer because I graduate in december and join the work force (probably going to sea in the merchant marine) your suggestions with Cal maratime are a great idea and a good place to start for more outside help! I have already contacted maratime museum, and left messages (it was a friday so they have to call me back. I want all the help and guidance because my expertise is in steam and old gas engines, not diesel and certainly not wooden boat repair and maintenance.
I have found with the guidance of Lisa, some operators manuals and parts manuals for the engine so I am studying those, and have been calling around and talking to surveyors and getting information on what to look for and watch out for.
Thank you for everything!
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 576
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Saturday, May 25, 2013 - 09:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One of the first things you need is a website. Any schools of wooden boat building in the area? ...wait, I'll check myself...Here's a start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaulding_Wooden_Boat_Center

I would strongly suggest that you get together with the owner and write an article on the boat and your plans for it and submit it to Wooden Boat Magazine. If published that would be a great way to find people who would be interested in helping/participating. If they turn you down, try a small advert at least, and of course other publications.

Honestly, the work involved is huge and you will need all the help you can get, and you may find other more qualified people join in and you end up a bit marginalized. That would be hard to take maybe, but IMO you have zero chance of saving this boat unless you get non-profit status and all the benefits that brings. So, I guess you have to ask yourself if you could deal with that kind of development. It's natural to think of it as "my boat", but it won't be your boat and even though you are the person who will start all this and be the savior of the boat, you may end up being just one of the people who owns, runs and works on it. Tough thing to accept gracefully unless you're the kind of person who just wants to see the boat saved more than anything else.

I think you will find it hugely educational in many different ways, and if you are set on a maritime career, what a great start to it. Just the publicity will benefit you personally I'm sure.
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dmontalbano
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Username: dmontalbano

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2013 - 01:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Robert thank you so much for the lead! I am very grateful! and I am not exactly sure what I want to do with her, in regards to a nonprofit (I will if I cant support her on my own) but right now I just want to save her from the scrapper, so unfortunately i think organizing a nonprofit will take too much time (I only have about 2.5 weeks, so for right now im looking for someone who is willing to take a risk on saving her and helping out any way they can financially to get her from where she is to a new dock (which I already have lined up). I agree with you though publicity for the boat would be an amazing thing so I will definitely heed your advice and write an article and submit it to some wooden boat publications and see if I can get some publicity that way as well as through the maratime museum here in San Francisco.
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 577
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2013 - 03:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My pleasure, it's all I can do from this distance. I'll take it to email from here.
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 12
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 10:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well gentlemen, I wanted to give you all an update and see if I can entice more interest in saving the Raven. The owner is up against a hard deadline to get her moved and is offering the Raven to anyone that will take here for FREE. Dmontalbano has been very interested in the craft and has worked diligently to get her cleaned up but now she has to go. There is a lot of boat here for free and it will go to the first one that can move her off the dock.
I know there were some men that posted here that smiled at the project and would like to have it so if your on the fence about it here is a golden opportunity to take this craft. She even has her own set of tools aboard and just needs a home.

So think about it gentlemen.

Lisa
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 580
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It'll be a tragedy if this goes for scrap gentlemen.

This is one of the benefits of a non-profit: what is too much for one person is not when spread among a half a dozen or more.

Time to post on some other wooden boat forums!
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johnoxley
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Username: johnoxley

Post Number: 81
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 05:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are plenty of organisations to model a society on. An instigator needs to attract a group of like minded people together. When a critical mass is achieved, the group can produce a legal structure to control the organisation admin and finance. In my country a non-profit still requires a annual report, but as long as funds are ploughed back into the project, there is no tax.
Look at http://www.shf.org.au/LdyHpt/LdyHpt.html Commenced 1965 by a 21 yo enthusiast and now has many more vessels and an extensive restoration and operating facility. This is Australia, but US has a greater population, therefore a larger potential membership.
Suggest do a local newspaper publicity drive and gather together a group of like minded people. Not easy, but there are many restoration groups and they all had to start somewhere. There is going to be a ready population of interested people and leaders who will gravitate to your project. Seen it many times. Just start.
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bruce
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Username: bruce

Post Number: 383
Registered: 07-2002
Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Try contacting the North West maritime center in Port Townsand WA..A center for Wooden boats. They may be interested in taking it as a donation. nwmaritime.org
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 584
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - 10:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Any updates on this?
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 13
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2013 - 05:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well gentlemen, there has been a lot of interest but no takers even for free. She has about a week left before she is towed off for scrap. Pretty sad end to a pretty neat boat but I guess none of us last for every. I want to thank everyone for their interest and some of the wonderful suggestions. It just turned out to be a money issue for the one young man that really dug his heals in to save her. He had everything lined up but apparently couldn't get insurance to move it to the repair facility he had lined up. The clock just beat us all down.

Again thank you all for your help. The offer now is to try to find someone that can take the engine out and scrap the rest. Maybe at least that much can be saved but fur now it's all headed for the boat grave yard.

Will try to post some pictures when she is towed off..............

Best regards and again thank you,

Lisa
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Davemell0
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Posted on Saturday, June 15, 2013 - 06:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://books.google.com/books?id=oHdaAAAAYAAJ&lpg=RA2-PA135&ots=QKRHIIKFxx&dq=cr yer%20tug%20raven&pg=RA2-PA135#v=onepage&q=cryer%20tug%20raven&f=false

I found this information on the Raven.

It's too bad it is such a big project, because it is an interesting and historical boat.
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John Newman, Jr.
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Posted on Monday, June 17, 2013 - 02:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I realize I am getting to this party very late, but stumbled across this thread through a link on another antique engine site.
The size of this boat would seem to rule out transporting it by truck. Is it also too large to ship by rail? If so, then it would seem that the only other way to move it East would be via the Panama Canal.
What would be required of a person to operate such a boat, in a non-commercial (individual/personal ownership & use) regarding licensing and/or certification?
I am in no position to take on such a task ( regardless of my desires...) but am simply curious.
Thank you,
John Newman, Jr.
Saint Louis, MO
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 14
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2013 - 04:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi John...........
Well I think it could go by rail as, to correct my original post is only 16' in width not 146' as I made a grave typo and didn't catch it until it was too late. But with all that said I would guess anyone that had the skills could pilot it through the Panama Canal on a trip like that. Of course the poor Raven would need considerable work on her to get ready for such a trip but I would guess anyone with the money, skills and navigational abilities could do it.

Not too late to the party as she is still looking for a home but the clock is ticking faster ever day now and it doesn't look good right now. So it's good you give me and excuse to respond and keep this thread and the Raven alive a little longer.

Lisa
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 586
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - 03:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are ships which specialize in carrying large motor and sail yachts from one coast or continent to another. Quite a common service now.
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jdheinzmann
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Username: jdheinzmann

Post Number: 18
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - 08:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you want to see Raven and the context in which she presently sits, plug these coordinates in to Google Maps in satellite mode: 37.909012,-122.380155.

Judging by her surroundings she must be a well-known landmark for the local boaters. I can see why, she would be vulnerable to swamping from other boat wakes. There are certainly larger vessels than she sharing the same operating space.

-JD
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 15
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

FABULOUS NEWS!!!!!!!

Sue the owner just contacted me and RAVEN has a home and WILL be saved from the breaker. Thanks to all of you for your concern, help, travel time to visit Raven and all that you all have done. Especially with regards to networking and getting your friends involved. It was confirmed to me that we found a gentleman that wants the boat. He has seen her, has the professional means to tow her (he's in the business) and has a place. Even has an alternative for her if for some reason it doesn't work out for him and his family the boat has a home historically. The Raven WILL see her 100th Birthday!

At this time I can't give specific's about the new owner and where she is going as of now. But we all can breath a sigh of relief and say we all contributed to her finding a home. The BOAT GODS are truly smiling down on Raven today.

I will also be contacting all of you that took the time to email me personally with tips and help. I made many good and interesting friends through this process so you all will be receiving a note later from me.

But for now just know that we all contributed to this success and thank you. I may even take the point of being Raven's spokesperson and say "Thank you from Raven".

I will post pictures of her being towed off and at that time I'll have more information that can be posted. This blessed event will take place some time next week.

Again thank you all and we ALL can have a collective sigh of relief.

Most sincerely,

Lisa
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bruce
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Username: bruce

Post Number: 384
Registered: 07-2002
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 01:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Best to you and Raven Lisa. I hope Raven will have it's own Facebook page in the future so we all can follow her journey. BH
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 587
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 01:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's great news Lisa! Personally I look forward to seeing a website; no need to tie up your content with FB. Someone we know has the perfect site address already!
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 16
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Friday, July 05, 2013 - 11:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good Day Gentlemen,
Well this is my closing chapter to the Raven saga. Last Sunday, 6/30, she was successfully moved to her new home in Bethel Island, California. The gentleman that stepped up to take her is a tug boat captain and had the means to come down and rescue her and give her a new home. One of the posters here that worked real hard to take her himself, Dmontalbano, rode on the Raven to her new home and has been invited to work on the restoration and getting her running again. I know many of you may be interested in her future and I would urge you to contact Dmontalbano and persuade to post progress and pictures so we all can follow the boat we so got involved with.

Again I want to thank all of you that took your time to respond to my pleas for help. There were many very creative and good ideas of how to save her but alas it was the sever time constraints that didn't allow anyone to get the "foundations" going. But it took a lucky strike to find that gentleman that gave her a home and I know we all wish him well in the project.

Sincerely,

Lisa
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russell
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Username: russell

Post Number: 63
Registered: 08-2003


Posted on Sunday, August 11, 2013 - 05:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I came into this a bit late: It would have been gut wrenching to dwell with the prospect of this fine ship and engine going to the knackers. We have just lost two ex UA Army (built for by NZ) tugs with rather bigger direct reversing Atlas Imperials. Fortunately one engine has been taken ashore and is running well. Sad because the very reason the ship in question was scrapped was that her engine was beyond it. This suffered criminal neglect in a museum for nearly 20 years -they are useless owners of ships sometimes. Just no clues at all.



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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 17
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Sunday, August 11, 2013 - 08:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Russell,
Thanks for the pictures and comments. These big old engines are infectious once you see one. I personally have never seen one run but it's a mechanical marvel. In the Raven's case here we were extremely lucky that one gentleman with the means stepped up and took her. She will be saved and I will look forward to seeing at the very least pictures of the engine running.

Regards,

Lisa
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shmm
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Username: shmm

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2013
Posted on Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 08:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anybody know the draft on the tug
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kenm@big-creek.com
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Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 09:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She's on the bottom at Sandmound Slough in the SF/Sac delta. She has a nice 10x13x4 cyl Atlas Imperial 135 hp slow turn diesel. I asked a friend about her status and this is his response:

"Raven has not found a ‘funded’ caretaker yet, and is approaching the breakers on the terms of the Coast Guard who is now involved with raising because Raven is a hazard to navigation. Although she occupies the same footprint she did afloat, she has become a hazard sitting on the bottom.

"Raven has suddenly turned into a huge liability for the people that were hoping to salvage her for the machinery. They got her for free to save her from the scrappers in Richmond. They towed her to this Bethel Island dock in July, and then did nothing since then.

"I think you have to pay up-front for scrapping a boat, and then you recover money from your own salvage sales. These people apparently were not funded well enough to haul her out and have her dismantled – I would think $10k to start.

"The massive wood hull did have a couple of leaks that were easily covered by a bilge pump, but power to the boat was interrupted, pumps stopped, and she went to the bottom. Now a hazard to navigation, The Coast Guard became involved in raising her, and the owners will be served with a huge invoice. She will likely be towed to a local Marina, hauled and broken for scrap. The current ‘owners’ are trying to deny ownership/knowledge.

"Maybe someone will outbid the scrap yard for the Atlas.

I found this board while trying to find information about the Raven. There was a lot enthusiasm about her last summer. How about now?

Raven on the bottom
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 18
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 10:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, such a sad end to this very long story. I was so happy and elated when the new owner stepped up and took her. We all had great expectations of seeing her run again in all her glory. But I guess this is truly the end of the line. I had heard that the new owner had a run of bad luck with his business and I guess that trickled over to the Ravin. This is truly what everyone feared. So very sad and now will be so expensive for someone. Still hope someone can step up and bid for the machinery. But indeed the longer she sits like this the worse it gets.
Thanks again to all that worked so hard to find her a home and give idea's. It was just an overwhelming project in todays economy.

Best regards,

Lisa
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 19
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 09:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well Robert I certainly share your frustration. If you still have my email address send me a note and I may be able to give you a little more background on why this may have happened. It's certainly a tragedy and in reviewing this thread you were involved with ideas right from the start. At this point she has probably been underwater too long now to make saving the engine a worthwhile proposal at any cost. But please email me if you like.

Regards,

Lisa
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 640
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lisa I wouldn't write the engine off at all. Is there a vocational college in the SF area that might like to have it to restore? She is lying in fresh water after all. I wouldn't write off the boat either, if it hasn't been down that long. Many a vessel has been raised and recommissioned. Things dry quickly in the kind of warmth you have down there.
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 20
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 11:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent point about the fresh water. I didn't take that into consideration at all. I was thinking the corrosion of salt water.

I am a long way from the boat now and did the best I could when I was closer to it. I'm afraid the coast guard will indeed raise her and get her on dry land and that will be the end of it at that point the bills need to be paid and the scrapper would be the only one with money at penny's a pound.
As I mentioned before Robert, if you would like to email me I will give you a little more in depth background.

Regards,
Lisa
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jed_clamp
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Username: jed_clamp

Post Number: 6
Registered: 09-2010
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 01:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dont give up hope. Ive been a full time marine carpenter for the last twenty years. Ive worked on a handfull of old boats the that have sunk. (before I worked on them:-) and some a few times before being tended to. Talking about the boat it self, while newer boats made with lots of plywood may end up a loss, the older boats made with solid wood can end up just fine after a sinking. You already know the drill with the engine. It will be fine if flushed and run in good time.
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johnoxley
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Username: johnoxley

Post Number: 111
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 09:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi - I worked on the steam yacht Ena, which in an earlier life as a fishing boat hit a part submerged container and sunk in deep water for long time. Look at http://www.enasteamyacht.com.au/ for the reincarnation. The old Atlas diesel will be fine provided it is flushed with freshwater and well oiled and turned. There is no aluminum to corrode to toothpaste... A left field approach might be to get the vessel listed as a heritage shipwreck, but you might have to check local legislation. The other point is that these old boats often cost less to raise and float than they do to dump as landfill. The hull will need pumps and float switches plus backups. Have lots of experience keeping these old hulls afloat while they wait their turn.
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 21
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 11:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I appreciate all the positive thoughts about the Raven. Yes she has seen this drill before and the last time the engine was flushed, dried out and actually run before being pickled. Maybe the gentleman that posted the picture and story, kenm@big-creek.com would be kind enough to keep us all up on the disposition. Apparently he has a friend that took the picture. As usual the big problem for the Raven is time and money. I think once the USCG gets going on this it may be too late. But we all can be hopeful and maybe Ken M. can keep us all in the loop.

Lisa
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JB
Visitor
Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 03:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's my understanding the boat's current owner was killed in an unrelated accident in December. The boat had two automatic bilge pumps in place and operating effectively since her arrival. One of our local thieves came by and unplugged the power to kill the lights onboard so he and his friends could root around at night unseen. The entire boat was left without power. I went up to the dock in the early Sunday morning (Jan. 12) just in time to see her slip under. It was painful to watch!
The Coast Guard arrived that afternoon. They brought in a company named Global to raise her and recover the diesel fuel that was slowly leaking out. The Global crew was unable to get her raised after four days with a large crew and several trucks full of equipment. It appeared to me they were just milking the cow. Then they stockpiled the recovered hazmat on the neighbor's property without permission and without proper containment precautions.
Members of the crew were observed removing the captain's wheel and brass lights and driving off with them. I personally watched their supervisor remove the port side navigation light himself. Because witnesses came forward they had to return these items to the Local Marine Patrol. The heavy brass plate positioned behind the rear doorway is now missing.
Global reported one of their dive helmets stolen from out of one of their trucks. It turned out the diver drove off and left it sitting on the ground where he was parked. The helmet was found where he left it and returned. This same outfit left two open trucks full of expensive equipment sitting on the levee over the weekend. They did post a young guard. He was given a cup of coffee by someone he never met and minutes latter was seen leaving the site in search of a restroom. He returned two and half hours later. Meanwhile, I had to watch the companies equipment until five in the morning. (If you need some clowns there's a company I can recommend!)
The plan at this point is to gather equipment to raise her and get her pulled out of the water. Hopefully she can still be saved. If you have equipment or know someone, all will be well taken care of and returned cleaned. An experienced diver would also be a plus.
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robert
Senior Member
Username: robert

Post Number: 642
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 09:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear ME, since posting that comment I have learned more about the sinking. If you are the person to whom the Raven was gifted, feel free to enlighten us about how she sank. My comments were not addressed to anyone in particular so you need not feel offended.
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kenm
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Username: kenm

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2014
Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 09:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JB, I'd like to make contact with you offline to perhaps compare notes. I first knew of the Raven's plight 1-1/2 weeks ago. I have similar interests and am willing to devote some resources to raising her. I saw the boat last Saturday and have had dozens of phone conversations, including several with some who have posted to this thread and the man who raised her last time she sank. Email me with your phone no. and I'll call.
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rustaholic
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Username: rustaholic

Post Number: 14
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, January 31, 2014 - 11:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So Sad. I keep playing the lottery. If I ever win, I'd love to save such a wonderful piece of History. Maybe at least the engine can be saved. Has Tacoma Marine been involved? I met one of them at a show In Marina Del Rey years ago, seemed like agood group to help on something like this?
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jed_clamp
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Username: jed_clamp

Post Number: 9
Registered: 09-2010
Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 12:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whats the news with the boat? Is it still under water?
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 22
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 08:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Apparently she is still on the bottom and this is bringing us to three months there and from a recent picture appears to have rolled a little more. At this point time is NOT on Raven's side. I will certainly report on the ultimate demise of this craft when it happens but the reality is there is no real good future for her right now and it's not getting better. The owner has taken charge of the salvage but as of last report nothing has been done.
So there is the current status report.
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klanger
Advanced Member
Username: klanger

Post Number: 38
Registered: 03-2012


Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 09:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What a sad and inglorius end to a fine ship.
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 23
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2014 - 09:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now I have to ask. Any one have any news or further pictures of Ravens fate?? I'm thinking no news is kind of bad or worsening news..........
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 670
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2015 - 01:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Any updates on the vessel or engine?
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 24
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2015 - 08:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well all, its been a year this month since I gave a status report and nothing has truly changed. The Raven is still on the bottom. From what I have heard she has suffered some moderate cabin and deck damage from some ill-fated attempts to raise her by the owner. But there is one couragous gentleman that has been working tirelessly with the owner to consumate a deal and finally get the boat to the surface. Apparently the water is too muddy now due to winter flows through the delta for a diver to go down But a plan has been formulated and I believe that is the current status Probably the only real salvage at this point is the engine and associated machinery but again it has to come to the surface first. I will certainly post on the final outcome as I become aware of it.
Thank you for the interest as this sad story continues.

Regards,

Lisa
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dmontalbano
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Username: dmontalbano

Post Number: 5
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2015 - 10:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can report that i have been working closly with the owner and the gentleman spearheading he rescue of the engine and running gear, everything is lined up for another attempt as soon as the waters get less murky. I will update as things progress!
Devin
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robert
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Username: robert

Post Number: 687
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 26, 2015 - 11:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Any update on this sad story?
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mslisaj
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Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 25
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Sunday, December 27, 2015 - 09:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No news is very sad news.
I haven't heard any updates and I would assume she is still resting on the bottom; we're also approaching the two year mark of her sitting there. Very sad ending for sure.
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kenm
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Username: kenm

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2014
Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 01:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The long, sad story of the final two years of the Raven’s life can now be told. The Raven is gone, and about the only good news is that the engine won’t be going to China for scrap at least as long as I have control of it.

When the boat sank, apparently some Diesel fuel and lubricating oil leaked into the water. The Coast Guard and the Contra Costa County Sheriff’s Marine Unit became involved and Global Marine Salvage was engaged to raise the boat to pump the fuel and oil from the tanks. When Global raised the boat, Capt. Ron, the Raven’s owner, asked if he could pump out and re-float the boat. According to Ron he was refused and Global let the boat sink again.

The late John Woodson told me about the then recently sunken boat and her engine, which I had very briefly seen in Sausalito in the late 1970’s. John took me to see the Raven in his Hicks powered WWI USN liberty launch. I made phone calls, checked the internet, found this posting, and made contact with Capt. Ron. He agreed to sell me the engine and related propulsion machinery not including the propeller FOB my truck at the marina. He engaged a local salvage diver to raise the boat and asked me for a substantial deposit which I paid. The diver was ineffective, did little but waste time and money, and possibly further weakened the structure of the boat.

During the salvage attempt, when Ron tried to help right the boat by lifting by the anchor winch with a five ton barge crane, the winch pulled right out of the deck. The winch had been attached to 16”x16” timbers, but the wood was rotten and pulverized all the way through. I understand that kind of damage is called “iron poisoning” where the combination of wood, steel, and moisture forms acid which eventually destroys the wood.

Some friends, mainly Devin and Phil, have been enthusiastic about the project and encouraged me to move forward with the salvage. In the fall of 2014, I hired Deyess, an enthusiastic and creative young diver with some experience. We devised a plan to raise the boat and had the approval of Capt. Ron. Work was difficult because of a strong tidal current and cold water. Deyess cleared the wreck of excess lines left by others, stapled 10 mil plastic sheeting to the port side of the hull, and attached two floats. Shortly after that, it rained enough to muddy the water so Deyess couldn’t work. We tried again in early 2015, but visibility was still poor.

During the process, we learned that a $20 Harbor Freight air staple gun works great underwater, though the diver feels a pretty good power pulse! Deyess had the idea to use a large pallet bag that dirt, etc. comes in (see bags.com), lined with an oversize pallet cover for flotation bags. We figured each bag would have a little over 2,000 pounds of lift, we had 20 bags, and we’d need 20,000 to 25,000 pounds to pick the boat up to deck level where we could pump her out. The two bags we attached were still full six weeks later.

We intended to return in the spring and resume work. We were in contact with the Sheriff’s Marine Unit, who were supportive, but later couldn’t be contacted. They said they had plans to eventually “clamshell” the boat. At that time I had back problems, and Capt. Ron was selling his business, leaving the state, and was unavailable, which greatly complicated the project. In the fall of 2015, I spoke with Jerry, the owner of the dock where the Raven had sunk, who was all for the salvage because the Raven was costing him money by blocking his dock.

In late February 2016, I got a call from Jerry that the engine was sitting on a barge off his dock. A boat wrecker hired by the county had come in with a crane barge and literally ripped the Raven to pieces. They were able to grab the engine with a clamshell bucket and pull its mounting bolts out of the keel.

In at least partial defense of the county, they have an enormous problem. The Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta has around 1000 miles of navigable waterways and great fishing and weather. With well over 10,000,000 people within a two hour drive, there are a lot of boats in the area! In the delta, the affect of the “recession” is a full blown depression in boat values. Decent older boats, including wooden, can sometimes be had from one to a few hundred dollars. Owners often can’t afford to maintain or even scrap their boats, so large numbers are abandoned and many sink. To the county and Coast Guard, the Raven was just another sunken boat and hazard to navigation they needed to be rid of.

The day after Jerry’s call was a Saturday, so I made the 2-1/2 hour drive to see what was left of the engine. Jerry, Devin, and I rowed out to the barge. The engine was on its side. Most of the valve gear was mangled or missing, the 10-pump oiler was mangled, the reverse quadrant and shoes were broken off and are gone, the intake, exhaust, and water manifolds were broken off, and five of the eight round crankcase covers are gone. On the less dreary side, all major castings, flywheel, reverse gear itself, water pump, and most of the fuel system appear undamaged (from the outside) and intact. At that point the prudent thing would have been to walk away.

I contacted the wrecker who quoted much too high of a price. Then started the circular logic in my mind. Several times I decided it was too expensive, I’ll never have the time to get it running, but with all the blood, sweat, and tears we put into the salvage attempts and it’s such a rare piece, I couldn’t bear let it go to China to be scrapped. A week after the boat was demolished, the engine would be either sold to me or hauled for scrap.

On Friday March 4, the wreckers pulled their LCM landing craft up to the boat ramp and we backed in the equipment trailer and unhitched it. Using a crane, they picked up the ten ton engine and set it on wood cribbing blocks on the trailer. Other than having to unload the engine and reposition the trailer to keep from sinking the LCM, the operation went slowly and smoothly.

As of this writing, the engine is still on the trailer. As soon as we can, we’ll do what we can to keep the water damage from getting worse, including drying out the cylinders and filling with oil, filling the water jackets with antifreeze to prevent rust cracking, and we’ll try to pressurize the fuel and oil systems. A head stud nut (1-1/4 -7) I took off to measure for a lifting eye came off easily and the threads were oily with no rust. It’s possible the engine could have been overhauled if it wasn’t half demolished.

It really isn’t feasible to restore the engine. There are two Atlas Imperial 4HM1021 engines known to exist; this one and a running one on static display at a maritime museum on the east coast. Parts needed to complete the eastern engine are on my engine, so it’s highest and best use might be to be sacrificed for parts which would leave me with a big hulk of an artifact.

The demise of the Raven was hastened by a combination of factors including lack of financial resources, procrastination, egotism, lack of understanding of basic physics, ineptitude, inattention, criminal activity, a tragic accident, living the rest of our lives, and father time. If poor care is taken of something, it doesn’t last as long as it would if good care were taken of it. Nothing material lasts forever and a similar list could be written for anything that deteriorates with age, such as plants, animals, buildings, machines, and even ourselves.

Capt. Ron, Ken, Devin
Capt. Ron, Ken (me) in rowboat, and Devin. Wooden parts are breaking off and floating away in the current. 3-4 months after sinking.

Ineffectual Salvage attempt
Ineffectual Salvage attempt where lift bags were placed as low to the keel as as he could get. Does anyone know why that wouldn't work? He only got the boat to flop from starboard to port and back again later. We were a bit optimistic thinking we'd need the pumps to raise her! 6-8 months after sinking.

Water Hyacinth
Water Hyacinth is a big problem in the delta. Stack is gone, overhead is collapsing. Late Fall 2014.

The exhaust pipe was visible
The exhaust pipe was visible after the top was torn off with the crane. Raven had been down less than a year.

Just some cabin walls
Just some cabin walls underwater and a ripple in the current. It's amazing how fast a sunken boat deteriorates at the waterline. Fall 2015.

inspecting the devastation
Jerry and Devin inspecting the devastation on the barge two days after Raven was demolished.

Stay out of the way
Stay out of the way while they're swinging into place! If the engine had been set down all the way, it would have sunk the LCM, so we moved the trailer aft with the crane.

LCM
LCM with trailer at the ramp ready to hitch up the truck.
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mslisaj
Member
Username: mslisaj

Post Number: 26
Registered: 05-2013
Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 10:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well Ken, thanks for following through with this thorough epilogue of the ending of the Raven. It's too bad our paths didn't cross back in May 2013 as this story would have had a much better ending and we would probably be ending this with a video of the engine running again. As you said, by the time this salvage company got there it was just another rusting and rotting hulk. Obviously, absolutely no consideration was given to not destroying the engine any further then the water damage it may have suffered from being under water. I remember "clamming it out" was the original proposal when she was reported on the bottom in January of 2014. If ripping it out of the hull was the order of the day one would think some thoughtfully placed chains and "tearing it out" whole would have been better. Probably taken the same amount of time as the multiple grabs with a clam bucket. But that's all history now.

I want to thank you for the pictures, the story and all the time and money you put into a valiant salvage attempt on your part. Yes the iron is not going to China and maybe there is some spare parts there for the one existing complete engine.

Thanks again for all your efforts,

Lisa
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robert
Senior Member
Username: robert

Post Number: 693
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2016 - 11:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for telling us the rest of the sorry saga. If the water jackets are not rotted too far by long term salt water corrosion, and that would have happened in the decade or so the engine sat at the dock, not a year or two in the water, the engine probably is quite restorable. I would suggest getting marine mechanics/engineers course at a vocational college involved. A good steam clean would be a start. Much worse engines than that have been restored. Restored is where the value is as well.
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imotorhead
New member
Username: imotorhead

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2016 - 07:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ken, John Lucas here... we met at the boat the same morning that the diver showed up.. The saddest part of this story is after the boat first sunk it could have been refloated fairly easily. After it was damaged that task became a lot more difficult. I'm glad you finally got the engine but sorry to hear it's in such a bad state... Marine salvage is tough work.. I was skeptical about the divers plan to refloat the boat and was curious how this ended up... another one for the history books.

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