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Primer Cups

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searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher

Post Number: 341
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 19, 2009 - 09:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't collect priming cups per se, but, you never know when you might need one ------! Only five of these have a manufacturer stamped on them and one has a trade name: 1 Roberts; 7 and 9 Imperial Brass; 3 and 16 Lunkenheimer; 12 "Weather Head". Imperial Brass is always easy to recognize even if not stamped, they seem to be the only manufacturer that used the square wrench flats. Can anyone identify any of the others or if any had an association with a specific engine or use? Number 13 and 17 are pretty fancy - are these from autos?

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thomas
Senior Member
Username: thomas

Post Number: 344
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice assortment. I assume the 13 & 17 insulated handle was so you didn't get a burn. I can not think of how you could say a certain type was auto vs stationary etc.
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 2188
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 08:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*
Good assortment of valves, I don't collect them as such either but I buy all of them that I can find like the ones commonly used on the old marine engines. There seems to be some sort of reverse mathematical ratio thing going on though the more I have the harder it is to find the right one that goes to the engine I'm fixing or restoring ?

These valves were called "Ground key Valves" by the mfgrs for the obvious machine grinding of their tapered fit. There were two basic valves the "All Finished" and the "Sping Key Type" and many styles of applications for each kind.
I guess from being around salt water all my life I prefer the "all Finished" Type vales where applicable because of the rust and corrosion at the spring end type ?

1918 Lunkenheimer catalog

1. L1

2. L1a

3. L1b

4. L1c


**
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searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher

Post Number: 380
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 08:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can anyone suggest a place to find these little bronze springs?

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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 1117
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 09:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JUst get a piece of bronze spring wire and wind them yourself.
Dick Day showed me how many years ago. If it has to be precise I use my lathe turning super slow. If the coils dont' have to be spaced perfectly I just wind the wire around the right size screw bolt pin or whatever by hand. What you wind it around will be smaler. How much smaller I figure out by trial and error.

Do you have all of your brass jewlery rest on a padded cushon?

Hope this helps
Ernie
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searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher

Post Number: 381
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Terrific, thanks Ernie. Where is the best place to get that wire?
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robert
Senior Member
Username: robert

Post Number: 305
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 01:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've robbed damaged or incomplete petcocks or aircocks for those springs before now. Winding them would be a good idea! Of course the brass/bronze washers and tiny cotter pin are usually missing too. Not sure where you'd find those.
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searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher

Post Number: 383
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 01:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lowe's has the tiny brass washers. They were packaged in little plastic envelopes. I didn't look but I expect they have the small cotter pins as well but probably those are in the banks of drawers rather than hanging on displays. I expect the washers are also available in bronze but these days what you get is silicon bronze and I just don't find it very attractive, especially for what it costs.

Lowe's also has a couple of sizes of the brass thumbnuts that are often missing from buzz coils.
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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 1118
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 04:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The wire stock I have was given to me by a friend.
Other than that...McMaster Carr??
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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 1120
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 04:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Put this 9668K57 in McMaster Carr Home Page Search field. I couldn't get the whole link to work porperly
Less than 10 bucks for 20 ft .064 bronze spring wire
http://www.mcmaster.com/#

I guessed at .064 they have a bunch of sizes
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searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher

Post Number: 386
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 11:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ernie, many thanks for running that down. Using the product number made it a piece of cake to get there.
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richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 832
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 06:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In my opinion the following standard phosphor bronze spring wire sizes cover the majority of springs used with antique marine engines, Schebler carburetors, two stroke inlet check valves etc.
.028, .035, .05 and .0571
Don't try to make phosphor bronze spring wire more springy by heating it. It will simply wilt as spring wire.
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ldobbins
Advanced Member
Username: ldobbins

Post Number: 50
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 11:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Number 13 appears to be the same type as used on 1911 and 1912 Sterling Model B, D & R1. Probably others too.

If anyone has any like #13 that they want to part with, please shoot me an email.

Cheers,

Lew "The west Coast Sterling Guy"

l.dobbins@sbcglobal.net
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johnny
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 208
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 08:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


I would like six of the #16's in brass with 1/8 NPT. How much and when can you ship them? LOL! Someone with a CNC lathe or mill-turn should start making some of these 90 degree valves and sell them.
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searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher

Post Number: 408
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 12:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Johnny,
No problem. Here is everything you need to cable Lunkenheimer with your order including the code word. Speaking of code words, you probably will want to avoid ordering Fig. 229 on Page 136.




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Ron Hausmann
Visitor
Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 01:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All,
The number 11 primer cup shown is used on Kissel cars as an option in the 1920's. Most Kissel Model 45 and Model 55 custom engines had these types. Hard to get a set today!
Ron Hausmann P.E.
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searcher
Senior Member
Username: searcher

Post Number: 529
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 03:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Ron, it's great to be able to add applications for these old primer cups.

Here are some I put in the box very recently(I'm still not collecting these mind you).

The Frasse Britton type (N0. 21) were noted on a Knox 2 cyl marine engine but whether they were original to that engine or replacements is unknown.

Numbers 22 (unmarked) and 25 (Roberts)mount at an angle. All of the Roberts primer cups I have seen to date are meant to be mounted at an angle.

Number 24 is a favorite. It is a three way, i.e., one postion of the handle allows gasoline to flow into the primer cup from a permanent reservoir, the next position allows the gasoline to flow from the primer cup to the cylinder, and the final position closes off the reservoir, the primer cup, and the cylinder.

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