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2 stroke identification

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barry
Advanced Member
Username: barry

Post Number: 40
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 09:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Will appreciate opinions re the manufacturer and approximate date re engine illustrated by attached images. It was discovered in Ontario, Canada. It is similar to a St Lawrence, but many details are different and unique such as water pump, solid flywheel, intake manifold , etc.

Barry

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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 1430
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 07:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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Barry

Consider looking into the Foreman Motor & Machine Co. Ltd. Toronto Canada.

Their engines had many of the similar details as the engine in photos above.

The 90 degree elbow fitting next to the waterpump inlet does it go into the cylinder ? if so probably for a mechanical oiler which would date this eng ( 1909-12 ca) earlier than any Foreman eng I've seen ! Hope this gets you in the right direction .
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barry
Advanced Member
Username: barry

Post Number: 41
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Richard for the information. Do you have any pictures or copies of advertisements for Foreman engines?

Barry
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 1431
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 11:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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I have never seen an ad anywhere by Foreman, one of the Canadian Co's that didn't advertise in US.
My notes have them established 1909-10 ca.
They were a very progressive mfgr and made several engs two and four cycle and were still advertising engs in 1924, shortly thereafter they changed their name to Foreman Marine Equipment Co.discontinued engine sales and were a full line marine hardware and accessory Co.in their 30's catalog they still advertised their own reverse gears but no engines.

This photo from an old sales pamphlet is in mid teens, the st Lawrence look alike heads, solid flywheel, shape of the base and inspection plates are similar.

Formteens

This file photo shows head design !

Form11j2


Putting the description of your single in my data base only 3 names came up and the other two were eliminated, __still not a for sure ID___ but I think that your eng could very well be a very early version of these engs ??
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bgoss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss

Post Number: 52
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 08:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Based on the Foreman engines that we've had over the years, I'd say that Barry's engine has more similarities to early St.Lawrence. Possibly prototype??

Looking at Barry's last picture, does the pump have a threaded support screwed into the rear of the crankcase (like St.Lawrence) or is it just the way that the picture was taken?
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richarddurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 1856
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 11:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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In the year and a half since this post I have a bit more data on this subject.
An interesting man John V. Rice Jr designed a mercury make and break ignition in 1898, by 1905 he designed this engine and advertised it, his interests were using the engine for industrial applcations and I believe he sold the rights to use it as a marine engine to several other mfgrs.

1905

RiceJV05

The only J.V.Rice engine that I have ever seen is still in excellent condition and is in Dick & Barbara Days Fine marine engine collection.

rice3Day

rice4Day


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bgoss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss

Post Number: 53
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2008 - 06:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for this info Richard. That is a good bit of history that fills in some gaps.
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ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 2021
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 12:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rice Add
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bruce_g
Member
Username: bruce_g

Post Number: 13
Registered: 12-2009
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - 08:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Barry

In the 1905 ad of the Rice engine you will see that the carb is the same as the early St. Lawrence carb

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