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Making new Palmer YT1 Cylinder Head

Old Marine Engine » One and Two Cylinder Gas Inboards » Making new Palmer YT1 Cylinder Head « Previous Next »

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narrabay
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Username: narrabay

Post Number: 28
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2018 - 07:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have no idea how well this will work out but today as a side project I started making a new YT cylinder head. So far have the combustion chamber machined and the head bolt holes drilled, and they align perfectly. I do plan to slightly enlarge the bolt holes by 1/64 just so the head drops right on very slightly loosely.

This effort may take some time to complete as I tend to work slowly. Hopefully it is a success and that posting the progress here will help someone someplace down the line.







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narrabay
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Username: narrabay

Post Number: 29
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Monday, March 19, 2018 - 07:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lining up the bolt holes using a Bridgeport and an old head someone graciously donated as a template:

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narrabay
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Username: narrabay

Post Number: 30
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2018 - 01:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Combustion chamber and head bolt holes.

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narrabay
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Username: narrabay

Post Number: 31
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2018 - 06:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I cut the spark plug pocket today. Going to drill it to .504" then tap it for a modern size plug, 14x1.25mm - same 3/4" reach.

This part is the body of the head 1/2" shorter. Planning to make a top cover 1/2" thick. This will allow for milling out water jacket areas. Final height will allow for gasket, and valve guides should be able to seal with o-rings in machined grooves, where they pass through the top cover.

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narrabay
Advanced Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 32
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Friday, March 23, 2018 - 03:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Started to drill the intake and exhaust passages today. Intake 3/4" diameter because thats all it is on the old head at the entry point. The exhaust I could only get to 7/8" due to the amount of material I wanted to leave. But I may use an end mill to shave the sizes and make it oval for more exhaust passage area. (I cant go up and down any more but left and right is possible). Only went in 1.5" to leave material for a smoothed, rounded 90 degree transition from passage to valve.

next week I will mill the exhaust valve pockets and guide holes in one part holding operation each so they are concentric. and have a 1" ball end mill coming to make the transition smooth like the original.

Having no idea what valve this uses, I wil try to find something common and of the right stem length as that the least negotiable dimension. I'm thinking just over 1" diameter valves (opening will be 1" then need the chamfer), and can make the guides any ID for whatever stem diameter. That means fining a valve with the right stem length and a 1" diameter valve.

any suggestions where to look up valves by dimension?

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billschaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller

Post Number: 694
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2018 - 07:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good luck. looks like an interesting project. when I retire in 3 months, I hope to start working on some of my projects. If you can't find a valve, making one will be a whole lot easier than the rest of the head.
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narrabay
Advanced Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 33
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2018 - 12:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Bill, it's very relaxing. Wish I could retire, but that's a few more years for me. I think the hard part will be cutting in the water jackets around everything else. Only saving grace is that being 1018 steel, this can be easily welded should a miscalculation happen.

Today, worked on the valve pockets and passages, as well as the side piece for the intake runner. Another guy in the shop with a lot more experience solved that by suggesting to mill the side of the head flat, turn a round 1.5" piece with the 3/4" passage in it, and mill one side of that, and mig weld it on. So we worked together on that. Being new at machining, it really helps to get help and ideas like that one.










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narrabay
Advanced Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 34
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2018 - 07:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A little more progress, made the intake vertical runner feature which is on the side of the head, which will be mig welded on, and filleted along the edges to match the original. Drilled out the valve guide holes. Also, the 1" ball end mill showed up today so I rounded the transition where the port meets the valve pocket. Will do some hand work with a die grinder to smooth it all out. The messy top of the valve openings is just a tool holding problem I had with a collet that adapts a 1" shank end mill. It doesn't hold it well and I suggested it go into the scrap bin! The combustion chamber needs to go about .050" deeper anyway plus the valve seat formed so that will all clean up.






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miro
Senior Member
Username: miro

Post Number: 961
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2018 - 08:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not knowing the geography of the eastern USA seaboard all that well, I think that a lot of folks would love to see the work on the head at the Calvert Show in early May.
Plus we'll have the opportunity to share our experiences and break bread together ( and perhaps an adult beverage or two)

Miro
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narrabay
Advanced Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 35
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2018 - 10:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi miro, thanks for the idea. I just looked it up and it would be about 9 hours drive each way. I wont have any vacation by then. However, Mystic is Aug 18-19 and is very close (45 mins) and by then either the dispro boat will be done, or mostly done and I could tow it there easily. So maybe thats a better option for this year.

As to the cyl head, I need to get back into the shop but don't know when I can. Eventually it's in the works to obtain an old Bridgeport for home but that depends on a few things like how the job goes and finding one cheap enough that is good enough. One way or another though.

I did order a set of valves with the right stem diameter and length I can machine the valve heads so thats solved.
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narrabay
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Username: narrabay

Post Number: 36
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2018 - 11:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Had some trouble parting the top cover, the tool was chattering. So I saw a trick to notch the tool and it worked really well. Got about halfway in, reaching limit of tool, and finishing that cut with a hack saw. Will face turn the cut side flat and start laying out the holes starting with the head stud holes. Then drill and tap the valve stanchion holes, and the water outlet which I noticed is above the exhaust port (makes sense, get the hottest water out). On the underside, will relieve it enough to assure good water flow especially around that exhaust passage. As far as sealing the stud holes between top and bottom, I will have pressed in bushings there with locktite (which probably really wont be needed).

As to whether to bolt this on with a gasket and use o-rings to seal where the valve guides come through, or chamfer it and weld it and grind the weld flat, not decided. The weld would be cleaner like original, a bolted solution can be reopened. But thats probably not even necessary anyway. May end up welding this on, radius the top edge like original and make it look that much more like Palmer intended.



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narrabay
Advanced Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 37
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2018 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Graphic on sealing the stud passage between the top and bottom since that seam 1/2" down inside a 3/8" diameter hole cant be easily welded. The water jacket is not that big on both sides as the spark plug indent is on one side but this gives the idea on the stud sealing bushings.

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jb_castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos

Post Number: 1369
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2018 - 12:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My thoughts were to mill the top off ,a spot facer in the bolt holes would have left a shoulder sticking up., mill away the rest, make a plate to fit over the shoulders. after milling the water passages a new cover could have been fabricated, either silver soldered or siliconed into place.
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narrabay
Advanced Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 38
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2018 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And a little Easter relaxation, finish the top cover to .010" over, for now.

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narrabay
Advanced Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 41
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 07:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Instead of being a guest back at the shop I learned in, decided to hunt down a Bridgeport Mill of my own. After months, finally found a J-head in decent shape for a good price. This is a pic of separating the top off of it. Despite only finding doom and gloom about how hard it would be to disassemble and move, the top came off and the knee (with table) came off inside of ten minutes, making three almost equal weight sections of 500-700 lbs. The second slightly slack chain through the pulley area is crucial in case the whole section decided to turn over, as the main chain is below the center of gravity.

So, we should be seeing the water jackets being machined out fairly soon, once I get this machine up and running.

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ned_l
Senior Member
Username: ned_l

Post Number: 173
Registered: 08-2012
Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2018 - 05:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice! I've had a couple of opportunities to pick one up over the years, .... problem is I just don't have the space for it. ... And, there is a full machine shop where I can work that I can use anytime, .. and ... my neighbor right across the street has one. So why do I really need it??
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narrabay
Advanced Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 42
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2018 - 12:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ned, mine is still in three pieces, need to add onto the shed to make a place for it!

This week I was invited back to the shop I trained in as it was slow, and got to milling out the water jackets.

just not sure just how much room is needed, how thick the walls can be etc. So far I have left >3/8 thickness on the combustion chamber ceiling, and about 1/4" on the side wall. By the time I keep clear of head bolt holes, intake and exhaust runners etc, and the spark plug notch, there isnt much left to remove.

I hoping that this is a low tension engine with no thermostat will help. And I am trying to get coolant passages around the exhaust port as much as I can but in any case there is going to be much more metal left than with the original cast piece.

The rotary table was very loose and old, and that shows in the horrendous machining. I eventually figured out how to use the brake lever somewhat and adjust tool speed to get it to sort of behave. This is a water jacket and no one will see it, and the extra "features" etc just add surface area right? :/


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narrabay
Advanced Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 43
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2018 - 12:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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narrabay
Advanced Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 44
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2018 - 01:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Today worked on the top cover, lay out the four bolt holes and the two valve guide hols and the spark plug relief, and get those all cut...





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narrabay
Advanced Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 45
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2018 - 01:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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narrabay
Advanced Member
Username: narrabay

Post Number: 48
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 10:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

just a quick update for anyone following this, waiting to make some space for the Bridgeport. Turns out much easier to buy an old machine than to create space for it. meanwhile this cyl head sits next to my recliner as a reminder. Same for the Dispro project, it's ready to move along when the Bridgeport and a few other priorities are out of the way. Happy 2019

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