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PW-27

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Bill Foster
Visitor
Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2008 - 03:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have recently inherited a PW-27 that my father picked up about 15 years ago. At that time it was given a coat of paint and some attention but since then has been in a garage. I have purchased the BH-25 and PW-27 manual from this site and have found it to be very helpfull in learning about these engines. I have not done anything to the engine yet. I have checked by cracking one of the plugs in the lower portion of the water passages and found regular green antifreeze pouring out. So I at least know it was not put away dry. I however can tell there is some rust buildup in the passages as the antifreeze would not pour out easily until the buildup was cleared. I have removed the spark plug and the visible valve appears to be at least wet. The visible valve also appears to have a few slight scratches as though someone used a screw driver through the spark plug hole and tried to scratch the carbon off. I have not yet removed the cover for the reverse gear to check on its condition and oil level. At this point I would appreciate adivce on how to proceed with this engine?

I have hopes of getting it running and ideally installing it in a small launch. I have read some of the postings on the site and I am reluctant to remove the cylinder head as gaskets are an issue. Should I worry about the condition of the valve? Should I be concerned about forgein matter in the cylinder?

I hope to have more details in the following weeks as I have not had time to really familiarize myself with the engine or the accessories.

Thanks for the help, Bill Foster
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John Matter
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Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 09:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bill Gasket is availlable From Molina Gasket Co in Torrence Cal. Mine was expensive but excellent quality. Copper jacket with compressible material in the center, exactly like original. Good luck. John
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Jeff Hall
New member
Username: jeff_hall

Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 04:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I bought two from Olsons Gaskets @ $25 ea. They are not metal clad,but I have not needed the spare yet. olsonsgaskets@net-nw.com
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Patrick Hague
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Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 11:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have been trying to get my Palmer 27 running. Things keep going wrong so far when I started it was only the Magneto (no spark). Upon removing the Mag. the intake manifold came off in two pieces and of course the copper exhaust needed repair. After making these repairs I was about to reassemble the engine when I discovered that when the engine is turned over the Mag. / water pump drive is not turning. I think the engine may have to come out to make the repair can anyone help with information. I have some information on the engine what I really need is a picture breakdown on it to see what makes it work. I am about to abandon the project, can anyone help.
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Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 604
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 06:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andrew sells the reprint of the Palmer Manual for the BH and PW-27. YOu will see photographs and a lot of material on the PW-27. If you can find a manual on the Wisconsin model AEH you will have the basic guts of the PW-27. Palmer converted it to marine use by adding the water cooled cylinder and water pump, marine carburetor etc. Don't talk Palmer to Wisconsin folks as they well think you are nuts. Talk model AEH.
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Shawn McCoy
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Posted on Thursday, December 25, 2008 - 11:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a PW 27 engine that i am looking to overhaul and continue using in my sailboat. The engine runs, but likes to backfire, The compression seems low, I will probably need to install new rings, headgasket, etc. Any ideas on where to find parts for this engine.
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Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 698
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Friday, December 26, 2008 - 01:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think before I would tear into the engine I would measure the clearances on the intake and particularly the exhaust valve. Ex cold .008 In cold .006 Compression 100#
If you are running in salt water you can get a replacement compressible copper head gasket from www.gasketstogo.com at a very reasonable price. Fresh water you can cut yourself one out of available head gasket material. Little tricky due to the clearances around the head bolts and water passages are not bushed.
The PW-27 engine is a Wisconsin Model AEH with a Palmer supplied water cooled cylinder and head, lower crankcase oil pan, water pump, flywheel and reverse gear housing with Paragon OXKB reverse gear. The piston is for a Wisconsin model AFH.
Palmer supplied the water pump mounting bracket and several version of Jabsco pumps were used over the production years.
Don’t talk Palmer with dealers of seals and bearing. Simply give them the seal or bearing and they can precisely duplicate the original unit from the numbers on these units.
The way Palmer got 27 cubic inch displacement for the AEH block was to use the Piston and con rod of the AFH Wisconsin. The following are parts you may need to complete your rebuild.
Intake and exhaust valve Wisconsin Part # AE75B
Piston Rings for Wisconsin Piston DB-210 are available from Hastings, 4215.
Connecting rod is Wisconsin D-49
Wisconsin exhaust gasket is O56C or QC56C. This gasket is hard to find and you may have to make it. Palmer used the AEH intake/exhaust manifold for the PW-27.
Wisconsin AFH Piston DB-210,

The crankshaft on your PW-27 may need to be used in the rebuild. Keep in mind the clearances for the crankshaft Timken roller bearing are determined by the number of gaskets thicknesses you should use so it may be WISE to enlist someone familiar with the assembly process to assist in that portion of the job.
Set the intake to close at TDC and the exhaust to close one tooth late for better engine operation.
I suggest you get the manual Andrew sells regarding the PW-27 as it should help in your effort. I would also get a copy of the Wisconsin manual for the model AEH as it can be most helpful.
The PW-27 carburetor is a Zenith 61 marine carburetor which looks a lot like the AEH industrial carburetor but they are not the same. The AEH carburetor is illegal in a boat. Note the PW-27 carburetor intake throat slopes up and a pickup tube can be seen at the bottom of the throat. This picks up any gasoline if the engine is over choked on starting. The Marine carburetor also has a backfire trap and provision for a PCV tube connected to the valve cover to remove any fumes from the crankcase of the engine to force them out the exhaust pipe. An important function in a closed cabin boat. The NAPA Zenith 61 series carb rebuild kit is NAPA 2-1565.
The magneto has automatic spark advance.
Note the reverse gear seals and ball bearings except for the very large “Taunton” bearing are available from any bearing and seal dealer. Don’t talk Palmer. If the Taunton bearing is shot junk the OXKB and go find a junker which are not hard to find as so many are being junked these days as their engines are junked.
You will find a wealth of info on the page simply listed under Palmer and PW-27. I suggest you may find it useful to review that source of info. Good luck.
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Shawn McCoy
Visitor
Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard,

Thanks for the info to get me started. The S/N on the engine is 3948460. So I think that means the engine was 1960. What was the engine color for that year. I think mine was once green, painted blue, painted red and then back to blue over the yrs. I also have an origional manuel for the engine as well as one I purchased a few yrs back. It was a good running engine, but it liked to sputter and backfire on occasions. Almost like it was gagging on gas. The spark plug that was in the engine when i got it was a UD-16. Is that correct for the engine? Also is the OXKB Transmission supposed to make a "grinding" sound in reverse? Like metel on metel?

Shawn
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Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 700
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The serial number is correct for engines made in 1960. By that I mean it fits in the numbers for 1960. On occasion I have been given a serial number which indicates a year in the last two digits but the serial number has an error in it. So far I have been lucky and gone back to the owner and suggested the serial part of the number must have a transposition in it. Turns out I was able to suggest what the correct number should be and the owner came back and agreed.
I would like to add your serial number to the 2008 listing. If you can send me a separate message with Name and Address I will add it to the next listing. I don't publish the names and adresses on the internet. I am working on just a model and serial number listing to put on the page so anyone can see where their engine fits in the over all scheme of things.
With regard to color. IN the 1960s Palmer was using a green color and some engine models had a orange primer others had no primer. Don't know what the reason for that difference. The XO Rust Safety Green color is a pretty close match for the Palmer color.
The spark plug for those head 14MM thread was UJ10Y. For 18MM heads D-21. I am not a spark plug expert and perhaps others can suggest whether a UD 16 is OK. The reverse gear does make a gear noise as it is metal to metal. There is no connection between the engine oil and the reverse gear oil. The oil level in the reverse gear should be about 1 inch below the aft end of the shaft.
Hope this helps.
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Lawrence T Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: larry_from_maryland

Post Number: 334
Registered: 07-2003


Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2008 - 08:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The ud16 is the heavy duty version of a d16, often used in p60 palmer or wisconsen engines. The d21 is a little hotter and is whats listed in the champion catologe.
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Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 701
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2008 - 09:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the tip Larry. Regards, Dick
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Shawn McCoy
Visitor
Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 08:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard, so I ordered a couple of Headgaskets from that gasketstogo website and I should have them in a week. I checked the clearences on the exhaust and intake valve and both are right on target. The compression is good too. Then engine always ran strong. but after running it for a while, it wanted to backfire and almost sounded like it was chocking on gas. So that leads me to believe its a carb or a magnito issue. Ive spent the last couple of days cleaning the engine, degreasing, etc. Any idea where to get the copper water jacket plugs? I've started a pic log of the project and could e-mail them to you.

Shawn
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Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 707
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2009 - 08:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back in 2005 I put this info on the page. I wonder if the price or for that is the company still in business??? Make sure you get the correct dia. for the PW-27. I don't remember if 3/4 or 1" is correct. You can sort that out.

Go to any auto parts store and ask for Dorman part no. 560-012. This will be a 1” diameter concave brass core plug. Note these plugs are also called freeze plugs and expansion plugs. They currently come in packages of 10 at $.89 each. They have other sizes as well. Don’t try to substitute the cup type for the concave type as that requires a different size/shape mounting hole in the casting.
Dorman makes a mass of small items for automobiles and industry. There catalog is 6” thick.
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Mark Gaudette
Visitor
Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 12:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

2 questions for Palmer pw-27

1)expansion plugs size and Part # for cylinder head, Is it dorman # 560-012 1 " concave correct. I think the head and cylinder jacket are different diameters (I will need to look at engine more closely ) it appears someone at some point replaced it with a steel plug and is now corroded and leaking . The others appear fine

2) water pump question- jabsco 4530-00? (takes impellor # 4528)
Pump is dripping at what appears to be a packing gland where water pump shaft attaches to camshaft extension shaft. Read in one of manuals ( Model BH I think) that this is desirable ? my question what type of seal is this. Is it similar to stuffing box arrangement or is there a bushing / or seal around the shaft. pump has grease cup and screw at top to adjust for wear of impellor
Trying too squeak another year out of this motor , Runs great otherwise. Salt water Cooled-
Any imput greatly appreciated

magaudette@comcast.net
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Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 867
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 03:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Slight weeping from gland type packing is permissable particularly when using flax or similar packing. Modern Teflon type packing seems to be almost self lubricating once the packing has been seated. The grease cup lubicates the shaft housing and one should use old style water pump grease which is much stickier than wheel bearing grease. Also a 1/4 turn of the grease up at the start of a days run will problably be more than enough to lubricate the pump shaft. The set screw on the top of the pump holds the plastic ramp inside the pump it has no adjustment other than to firmly hold the ramp. If it becomes disloged then the plastic ramp will rotate with the rubber impellor and you lose all or most water flow as the plastic is no longer compressing the rubber fins.
The following round Valve stem packing material is ideal for antique or some modern marine engine water pump plungers or rotor shafts and for valve stem packing as it seals with very little pressure and is not effected by boiling water as is old style graphite or rubber packing.
Note these prices are from the 2008/2009 WWW. Grainger Catalog

Poly Temp Valve sealant.
Temp 450-600F Pressure 3000 lbs.
Valve Stem Packing

WW Granger, Stock number.
4X773 3/32" 240” roll Approx $9.45
5X585 5/32" 120" " " $11.98
5X720 7/32" 84" " " $13.98
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Mark Gaudette
Visitor
Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 11:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Richard . I was hoping you would answer my post:that is the info I needed for the water pump.
concerning the cylinder head expansion plug (freeze plug) I removed what was left. a slight probe with tip of screw driver went right thru. Nothing left of plug. Corrosion was the oly thing holding back the water in the head, Must have been a steel plug !! cylinder head plug is smaller approx 3/4" . I will try dorman for a replacemnt brass plug. There is only a small 1/8" recess to hold plug in place. Is this typical, I am concerned this not enough to retain the plug in place ??? atttached pic hope it goes thru. thanks againcyl head  freeze  plug
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David C. Dunbar
Member
Username: david_in_ma

Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 06:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mark, The rust at the 3/4"core plug seat can be solved by using a 13/16 or 7/8 end mill to enlarge the area and get into some better material. Dorman does have the brass "welch" plugs in many sizes. Done it many times. Use a very small hammer w/ a rounded punch and gradually flatten (expand) the plug into its bore. A little sealer onseat helps. David
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David C. Dunbar
Member
Username: david_in_ma

Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 07:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mark, My response was misleading. Use a 7/16 to 1/2" round punch or drift with a basically flat end. Slightly round and polish the outer edge of punch end. This keeps you from making gouges on plug and allows you to slightly tilt punch to gain an even expansion. You'll find concentrating just inside outer edge at first works best. Gradually work to center. You might try a couple plugs on an anvil or flat surface for practice. Hope this helps. David
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Doug Berg
New member
Username: dberg

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2011
Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2011 - 07:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am in process of restoring PW-27 engine number 4205463. I've disassembled the water pump and have 2 questions: what is the best gasket material for use with salt water cooling; and should the small brass screw-top cup be kept full of grease, which it had, but I removed figuring it was spent. The impeller looks good with each vane quite flexible. The plastic "ramp" is firmly in place.

The cylinder has a rusted wing-nut plug: does this retain/drain cooling water around the cylinder? If I remove the plug for replacement, will the cooling fluid drain-out the hole? Thanks for your help.
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ray walker
New member
Username: paceship

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2011
Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2011 - 10:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have 2 palmer27s for sale 1 is free & other stuck both have trannys 1-902-258-5225 out of my 25ft sailboat

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