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I need to replace the head on an m-60

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kevin stone
Member
Username: kdstone

Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello everyone.
First of all let me thank everyone on this board. I have learned many things from scanning previous posts pertaining to our Palmer engine. So far I have done electronic ignition, and rebuilt the carburetor. The engine is running great now. Here is my newest concern, there is an area next to #2 sparkplug which I believe must be a crack in the head. A small amount of cooloant shows up at this spot when the engine is running fairly warm. I have installed a new temp gauge and it seems to top out at about 180 degrees. There is no thermostat, the boat has a fresh water cooling system installed with heat exchanger. I have installed a new water pump for this and verified coolant is flowing through. I will try to attatch a picture of the problem spot.

My questions are these.

When I order the new head ( I prefer this to a rebuild) Is all of the information needed that it is for an IH c-60 farmll cub? The tag on the engine has palmer m-60 ser # 4831770.

I would like to continue to use the boat while I order the parts ( head, copper gaskets, head bolts etc..) Does anyone feel I am risking further damage by doing this?

Is the operating temp of 180 degrees acceptable?

I have found a source for the head at a cost of 170.00. Does anyone have a source to purchase from where they have had good luck? I live in Vermont.

While I have the head off is there any other maintainance items I should do? I have a good mechanic at our marina to rely on.

Thanks for any help, If anyone feels they would like to offer advise please do.

Kevin

I can't sort out how to make my pics small enough to post. Here is a link to them I hope it works, and sorry for any confusion.
http://picasaweb.google.com/KevinDebbieStone/PalmerEngine#
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Eddie Ross
Senior Member
Username: eddie

Post Number: 238
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did you know that the thermostat is NOT where it would be in the tractor engine? 180 degress is too hot for a raw water system. Raw water systems should run at 145 degrees in salt water and 160 in rivers and lakes. Too convert a tractor cylinder head to use on a P-60 you will need to drill and tap a 1/8" pipe thread hole fro fittting for air bleed hose at hhe top-forwrd end of the cylinder head. You will need a copper head gasket if you are running in salt water.
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kevin stone
Member
Username: kdstone

Post Number: 8
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 06:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Eddie, I know about drilling and tapping the hole for the air bleed line. Our engine is fresh water cooled. Lake water is pumped through a heat exchanger and a 50/50 coolant mix is circulated through the engine. of course the lake water cools the coolant. The coolant also circulates through a domestic hot water heater. I do have the palmer manual which shows how the original raw water system was set up. The fresh water system we have appears to have elimanated the thermostat. It looks to me like coolant always circulates regerdless of the temperature. Someone on a previous post commented that engines which were cooled by coolant were good if kept under 190 degrees. What is your opinion on that? I think our system is functioning, but I wonder if there could be a blockage in the head which is leading to the engine running hot. Possibly the suspected crack is because of this possible blockage. We bought the bought end of last season on the hard. When we got the engine running the temp gauge was no good, and the coolant pump was very low flow. These items are replaced and coolant is flowing.

I guess my questions are still

is 180 degrees too hot for a fresh water cooled engine?

Does anyone have a good source for the head?

What else should I do when I pull the head?

Am I risking any damage to the engine if I run the moter while await parts?

Thanks for the Help Eddie. I welcome any one elses input also.

Kevin
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Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 764
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 08:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Be careful the head is for the IHC CUB LO-Boy C-60 engine not the Cub Cadet. Go to any used tractor dealer and buy a useable head. Have it ground flat at almost any automotive parts house. Use the IHC tractor head gasket as it is fine with 50/50 fresh water/anti freeze mix. One thing to check is the joint between the exhaust line and the exhaust manifold. Over time carbon can build up and neck down the apperture causing the engine not to breath well. Cooling water is generally injected aft of this point so you may have normal water out the exhaust pipe but the engine is suffering. best guess!!!
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Eddie Ross
Senior Member
Username: eddie

Post Number: 239
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 10:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

!80 degrees is cool you are circulating in an enclosed system. Running coolant you can easily go to 195 degrees.

You can get a new after market head from a tractor supply store (Valu-Bilt, Steiner Tractor, ect.) Like Richard says, be sure to specify for a LoBoy tractor with a C-60 engine
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kevin stone
Member
Username: kdstone

Post Number: 9
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 06:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you both for the help. I am going to look into inspecting the exhaust this weekend. If I can manage to locate a head I may have some more questions.

Kevin
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James J. Flanagan
New member
Username: jflanaganhvcrrcom

Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 01:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am trying to figure out how to convert my Palmer p-60 to fresh water cooling. The two pictures posted don't show an alternator drive pulley on the side opposite the distributor and raw water pump. I would like to see how Mr. Stone's cooling system and alternator drive is set up. My Email address is Jflanagan@hvc.rr.com
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kevin stone
Member
Username: kdstone

Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 08:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

James,

I would be happy to share pictures and information with you about our fresh water cooling. Let me know if you want pictures of our system.

What we have was on the boat when we bought her last year. I have made a few changes. I do not know the make of the system.

Moyer marine sells one which I have read can be adapted to a palmer.

There is a pulley mounted on our flywheel shaft.

Kevin

As to the beginning of this post, I have replaced the head (I found the thermostat was moved to the tractor location on the head) I have replaced the thermostat with a temp control valve from indigo.

I am now wondering if I can modify my fresh water cooling to include the manifold. We our moving into salt water soon. I would like to lengthen the life of the manifold. Any thoughts?

Kevin
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Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 780
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 09:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kevin the standard Palmer P-60 heat exchanger plumbing assumed the exhaust manifold was in the fresh water cooling circuit not the sea wate discharge ckt. Give me a e-mail adddress and I will send you some material which shows the Palmer Fresh water cooling set up.
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kevin stone
Member
Username: kdstone

Post Number: 11
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 07:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Dick, my email is on the way

Kevin
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kevin stone
Member
Username: kdstone

Post Number: 12
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 05:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is an update on the engine work which you all have been so helpful with. I have repaced our unknown heat exchanger with one from moyer marine. I included the manifold in the coolant loop. In doing the work I did manually clean some scale from the manifold which appeared to be ristricting flow. I am happy to say that it all performs well. I can adjust our ingine temp from 140 to 180 very easily.

The last thing on my list is an oil leak, which I suspect is oil pan gasket. oh and probably a three blade prop.

Thanks to all
Kevin

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