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Feder
Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 08:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a question about the palmer marine engine,I was told by my Grandmother that my Great Grandfather(her father) was a mechanical engineer for the company for many years. His name was George Alexander McIntyre I believe that he had a few inventions for the company, my grandmother who is still alive but her memory is not what it used to be. So I want to get more information, I also want to get a palmer engine. So any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
John Feder
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Richard Day
Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 03:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have no information on a George Alexander McIntyre. That doesn't mean he didn't work for the company but there are only three patents ever issued to Palmer Bros, Cos Cob Ct. and I don't find his name on any that I hold. Can you give me any more info that may help in your quest??
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Feder
Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 08:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He worked there around 1910-1920, that I am certain because my grandmother remembers going to the plant as a young girl. He built his own sailboat called "The Lady Emma" which was moored in the harbor near Palmer Bros.
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Richard Day
Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 04:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting. If I should run into anything I will pass it on. Can you send me an E-Mail with your address and phone number so I can follow up on this?
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John Giulietti
Posted on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 12:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am purchasing an circa 1960 sailboat with a Palmer Model 27 Single Cylinder gasoline engine which appears to be in excellent condition.

1. Can anyone give me a lead as to how I can obtain a service manual for this engine?
2. What years was this engine built? (I suspect that this engine may be a retro-fit, i.e built before the boat was built)
3. How do I change the lub oil to keep this engine going?
4. If the engine runs well should I install fresh water cooling? Or should I not bother at this point in time?
Thank you.
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andrew
Posted on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 07:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John,

1) We have the Palmer model PW27 manual for sale at this link.
2) The last two digits of the serial number should be the year built. Probably in the 1960's.
3) Lubrication instructions for the engine and gear are in the manual.
4) If you use the engine regularly, fresh water cooling will prolong the life of the cylinder. Replacement cylinders and heads are not available. Most other parts are avialable as Wisconsin parts.

You can do a search using the "keyword search" link on the left for "palmer", pw27, pw-27, etc to find various other conversations about this model.

Regards,
Andrew
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Tony du Bourg
Posted on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 10:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andrew, In 1957, i bought a 23' sailboat with a BH 25 engine and have kept it running ever since. While I am no expert, I've learned a lot in 47years. My cylinder has been raw water cooled and is still in very good shape. Important to keep it flushed and alcohol filled in winter. I would be very happy to try to help you with your very similar engine if you wish. Good luck with it.
tony du Bourg tony_dubourg@stgeorges.edu
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Robert
Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2004 - 02:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a 34' Columbia that was powered by a Palmer 60 ... while having it rebuilt it was lost by the mechanic shop ... looking for replacement power
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Robert
Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2004 - 02:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a 34' Columbia that was powered by a Palmer 60 ... while having it rebuilt it was lost by the mechanic shop ... looking for replacement power .. RealEst411@aol.com
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andrew
Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 09:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Robert,
You can post a wanted ad in our classifieds.
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Carl Kelley
Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 05:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Our museum has just added a Palmer Q1 serial # 2097625 to its collection. We need information such as year, horsepower, years of production etc. Any help would be appreciated.
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Richard Day
Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 07:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carl you Q-1 was made in 1925. Just about the end of the model Q production which began about 1905/06. I tried to send you a separate message but for some reason the server said your address was faulty. Please send me a message and I will give you additional details.
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robert ruschke
Visitor
Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 01:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

richard i have been following your extensive knowlege about palmer engins,i have a P 60 1972
seawater cooled, exaust manifolt is good, would you rebuilt, and what is your opinion on that engine?
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eddie
Member
Username: eddie

Post Number: 30
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 04:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Robert,
I'm not Richard but let me chime in. You should consider that you might want to put that money toward a repower with a diesel. With a diesel there is a safety factor in your favor. Also in the event that you have to sell your boat for some reason, a gas engine will reduce the value of the boat to almost nothing. I had a Palmer P-60 and am all for keeping them running as long as possible but I think if it came to pulling it out you might be better off putting a diesel back in. Note that they are rebuldable but certain marine items, particularly the exaust manifold have not been made for 30 years and may be next to impossible to replace. Other than that, it is one sweet running engine.
Eddie
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Thomas Jansen
Visitor
Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 09:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I own a Palmer Model 27 single-cylinder engine and it has a cracked head, so I am hoping to buy a head for it. Can anyone tell me where I might purchase it?
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Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 410
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 05:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very difficult to find. Why did the head crack?? Was the engine used in salt water and then taken out and the water jacket allowed to dry out?? What happens in this case is the salt in the iron exspands and destroys the engine from the inside out. It is essentially impossible to stop once this process gets going. Look around the bottowm of the water jacket for tiny soon to get bigger cracks. If you have the head off look for rust deposits in the bottom of the water jacket. Remove the aft drain plug and make sure it is clear of rust. If it isn't you probably have a serious rust problem that won't be easy to correct. Don't like to be so negative but letting a salt water cooled water jacket dry out is a sure way to destroy an otherwise good engine.
If it is a fresh water freeze crack you can get it welded or brazed or even slap on some epoxy and forget the problem.
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patrick henry hague
New member
Username: patrickhenryhague

Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 10:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We are looking for a Palmer PW 27 8hp. engine. This is for an intended Sea Scout project. What we have is a PW 27 that was removed from a boat and is in need of repair. There are two gears (cam and water pump/magneto drive)inside and both of them are in many many pieces missing teeth, broken gears etc. Can someone help us get another engine or parts for this one?
Sincerely,
Patrick H. Hague
503-349-0402 Port. Ore.
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 852
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2008 - 12:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Patrick,
As long as your cylinder and head are good the internals are easy as they are Wisconsin.
You can search on here for PW-27 or Dick Day will be back tomorrow. He can tell you which model the internals are
Hope this helps
Ernie
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Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 628
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 09:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PW-27 comments for Patrick 07-15-2008

Thanks Ernie for the heads up. You are so right unless Patrick has a good cylinder and head he is wasting his time trying to restore any PW-27.
Patrick, basically the Palmer Wisconsin 27 is the lower portion of a Wisconsin model AEH with a Palmer Water cooled cylinder and other parts bolted on. Your existing unit seems to have suffered serious damage which suggests you should locate a air cooled Wisconsin AEH and marry the Palmer parts to it. Save all your PW-27 parts so you don’t throw out parts you need. For example the crankcase bottom was supplied by Palmer and it should be used in rebuilding the AEH into a PW-27. Palmer supplied the reverse gear and its housing. The reverse gear if your engine has one is a Paragon OXKB. A very common and a lot are now being junked as their mating engines are junked. It is an excellent reverse gear and rarely has any problems.
Palmer supplied the water pump mounting bracket and several version of Jabsco pumps were used over the production years.
Don’t talk Palmer with dealers of seals and bearing. Simply give them the seal or bearing and they can precisely duplicate the original unit from the numbers on the unit.
The way Palmer got 27 cubic inch displacement for the AEH block was to use the Piston and con rod of the AFH Wisconsin. The following are parts you need to complete your rebuild.

Intake and exhaust valves Wisconsin Part # AE75B
Piston Rings for Wisconsin Piston DB-210, Hastings, 4215.
Wisconsin exhaust gasket is O56C or QC56C. This gasket is hard to find and you may have to make it. Palmer used the AEH intake/exhaust manifold for the PW-27.
Piston Rings for Wisconsin Piston DB-210, Hastings, 4215.
Connecting rod is Wisconsin D-49

The crankshaft on your PW-27 may need to be used in the rebuild. Keep in mind the clearances on the crankshaft roller bearing are determined by the number of gaskets thicknesses you use so it may be WISE to enlist someone familiar with the assembly process to assist in that portion of the job.

I suggest you get the manual Andrew sells regarding the PW-27 as it should help in you effort. I would also get a copy of the Wisconsin manual for the model AEH as it will be most helpful.
The PW-27 carburetor is a Zenith 61 marine carburetor which looks a lot like the AEH carburetor but they are not the same and the AEH carburetor is illegal in a boat. Note the PW-27 carburetor intake throat slopes up and a pickup tube can be seen at the bottom of the throat. This picks up any gasoline if the engine is over choked on starting. The Marine carburetor also has a backfire trap and a PCV tube connected to the valve cover to remove any fumes from the crankcase of the engine and force them out the exhaust pipe. An important function in a closed cabin boat.
The oil in the reverse gear is not shared with the engine crankcase oil. Use SAE 30 non detergent and it should be about 1 inch below the shaft at the aft end of the gear box. This can be examined by removing the cover of the reverse gear. Change it once a year. The aft seal and bearing is easily replaced when out of the boat. I suggest you do it in the rebuild as in the boat it is a lot more difficult. Simply remove the flange coupling and remove the cap screws holding the seal and bearing flange and press them out and replace.
Remember the reverse gear LOCKS IN FORWARD BUT DOES NOT LOCK IN REVERSE. Don’t take the reverse gear apart. It rarely has problems. If the internal ball bearing, the big “Taunton” bearing were to fail junk the reverse gear and go get another OXKB unit. They were used in a number of small marine engine applications.

Set the exhaust valve to close on Top Dead Center and intake to open one tooth later.
The magneto is the same as used on the AEH. Same engine assembly/timing instructions apply.
If you plan to run in salt water you must have a compressible copper head gasket. You can get one from inquiries@gasketstogo.com for very reasonable price and of good quality. If you are going to run in fresh water than you can make one out head gasket material which is not copper.

REMEMBER THE PW-27 RUNS CLOCKWISE WHEN FACING THE FLYWHEEL.
Good luck.

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