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1905 palmer model c to be sold not li...

Old Marine Engine » Palmer Engine Co » 1905 palmer model c to be sold not listed yet offers?? « Previous Next »

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mark a vess
New member
Username: oldengineman

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2018
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 10:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Up for bid from the Museum of Antiquated Technology is a 1905 Palmer marine/stationary 3 HP hot head engine in very good condition. This engine looks to have been inside for most of its years in storage. The engine turns over easily, there is minimal rust, I see no cracks in the engine casting and the ignition, governor and the mixer is there. All the hardware is original and clean. The engine has been factory converted to a stationary throttle-governed engine using a cast iron base and a “farm engine style” flywheel. This cast base has one broken corner. The cooling is thermosiphon. The crank mounted ignition timer eccentric is there but the timer actuator shaft has been broken off. The palmer has good compression! All lower end bearings are snug. I see no big end or wristpin play. This engine has the brass Palmer check valve type mixer also used for gasoline or kerosene. It is in great condition. The mixer inlet throttle pipe is threaded into a boss cast with the crankcase. That makes this engine an old style casting pre-1907. The very important cast brass tag is attached and displays a very early version of Palmer’s script. The water jacket has very little internal rust as it should be. This engine only saw fresh water. The governor weights and the linkage to the mixer are complete and without damage. The factory frame tab and knurled nut contact is there. A square depression in the lower crankcase is stamped “55”.
This engine is big. It is thirty six inches tall. The single flywheel is 22 inches in diameter. I am told it weighs 290 pounds. I see lots of original-looking green paint on the cylinder and the crank case. The brass badge says PALMER BROS., COSCOB CONN., model “C” Patent date Aug. 20, 1901. All the small steel parts and all the brass parts are not corroded. All of the ignition parts cleaned up easy. The make and break “sparker” was fully functional when I got this engine. The bore and stroke is 4.5” by 4.5”. The cylinder has a clean bore without rust or pits. This engine was put away in running condition I. E. not retired because of damage. I have pulled all of the on-line information/photographs and authored a brief history of the Palmer “C”. This is available for free upon request.
Mounted on the cylinder head there is an insulated threaded and adjustable nickel rod which stuck down into the path of the make-break contact which completed the electrical circuit when the moving contact touched the end of the firing pin. Palmer turned off the ignition after the firing point saving the battery. This is very early stuff!! The engine has been power washed. I have lubricated everything and everything is free. I have over forty years of experience working on early marine engines and many others. I rarely see this engine at the hundreds of engine shows I have attended.
You may inspect the Palmer at my home. Please ask any questions that you may have or request more pictures. I will truck-ship this engine using a sturdy pallet and lots of careful strapping. I will remove all small parts and ship them separately. You pay shipping. Buyer arranges all shipping for the pallet. I pack, palletize and load for free. Sorry, no returns. I offer the best in technical support after the sale. Local pickup is encouraged. I can load the engine onto a truck or your pickup. The Museum of Antiquated Technology offers only the best of all things old and technical. Please be sure to offer me good feedback. I will do the same for you. This is an unusual find for any museum or collection not to be seen again soon. Thanks for looking.
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Robert
Senior Member
Username: robert

Post Number: 920
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 10, 2018 - 12:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Same place?

http://antiquatedtech.weebly.com/

This is not exactly the place for adverts, but since you've posted one, how about some photos and a price?
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Dick Briggs
Member
Username: dick_briggs

Post Number: 24
Registered: 02-2015
Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 11:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think pictures have shown up here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/antique-marine-engine-1905-Palmer-stationary-make-and-b reak-not-hit-miss/152858897061?hash=item239719aaa5:g:ExQAAOSwjytaVCsS
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 2432
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Thursday, January 11, 2018 - 01:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are the pics from eBay























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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 4080
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Friday, January 12, 2018 - 12:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*

1902

2



*
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Bruce Hall
Senior Member
Username: bruce

Post Number: 629
Registered: 07-2002
Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2018 - 09:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

very crisp illustration Richard
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miro forest
Senior Member
Username: miro

Post Number: 951
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2018 - 07:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A fair price for that engine is $300

miro
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mark a vess
New member
Username: oldengineman

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2018
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2018 - 08:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi to All. Thanks to Robert for getting this engine seen on this forum. I am asking $1500 because I believe that this is a unique engine. As a collector/restorer, I love the fact that it is complete and an easy restoration. The other engines that I have seen of this age seem to be pretty rusted. I also wanted to present this engine for viewing by all marine engine enthusiasts. It is a great snapshot of an early, untouched palmer. Thanks to All for looking! Mark Vess
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Robert
Senior Member
Username: robert

Post Number: 924
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2018 - 03:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess it goes without saying that this is not a marine Palmer, but a stationary version, albeit a very early one.

Is that an eccentric behind the flywheel and what was driven from it, if it is?

Do you have the missing chunk of the baseplate?

I'm also wondering what the little copper or brass tab with the knurled knob is for, under that bolt at the rear? Grounding?
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 2433
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2018 - 07:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If one looks at the history of Palmer complied by Richard A Day this engine style came on line during 1900. There is no known way to accurately date these early Palmer engines. By the way all of the info compiled by Richard Day is copyrighted.

Robert the lug is for the ground wire to the battery. Most of the early B,C,D and E Palmer engines have them.The eccentric is to operate the make and break timer. It also operated the water pump on the marine model.
Since this engine is tagged as made in Cos Cob it has to be post 1902 because Palmer was located in Mianus about 2 miles up the Mianus river from Cos Cob until sometime in that year.

All of the Palmer engines made before 1910 were dark green.

These stationary Palmers aren't that uncommon. There are 4 Model C, 4 or 5 model B and at least 2 Model E stationary engines out there. There must have been a Palmer dealer in eastern Massachusetts that was into selling the stationary style Palmer engines. This is the 3rd stationary C engine to show up in eastern MA.
The basic engine is no different from a marine one. The stationary style was done with add on items like the governor and throttle between the mixer and crankcase and different flywheel/s. And of course the base. This engine most likely had a marine style flywheel in the normal location and or a gear to drive a large water pump.
The cylinder and crankcase castings, crankshaft, connecting rod and piston are exactly the same as a marine version.

Miro is correct. 300 to 500 is a fair price.
Hope this helps
Ernie
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 2435
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2018 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Robert you are correct.
http://antiquatedtech.weebly.com/
This is Mark's Museum. Too bad you are so far away. It is worth the visit.
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mark a vess
New member
Username: oldengineman

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2018
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2018 - 10:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello to All, Well, it looks like I have to eat some crow here. The engine did not sell for $1500 with 900 hits and 47 watchers on fleabay. I really do need some more money for this than $500. Heck, I see mixers going for more than that. How about I get this Palmer popping away with no bad sounds coming from the internals. Any guess what it might bring then?? Thanks All, Mark
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 2436
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Friday, January 19, 2018 - 07:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mark,
Just bring it over and we will make it run.
Running you are in the 750 range with coil and battery included.
Quite often they don't run all that well with the Palmer mixer so you might need to put a 1 inch Schebler on it.
Ernie
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Robert
Senior Member
Username: robert

Post Number: 927
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2018 - 11:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for that info Ernie. I suppose if you had a marine Palmer in your boat it made some sense to have the same engine to drive your cordwood saw etc.

Did the stationaries have the the cylinders rotated 180° from the marines as is the case here?

And while we're talking paints and dates, there is a Palmer C (marine) around here that is painted a similar light grey(?) I see what looks like some fragments of that paint on the flywheel of this engine; is it a replacement wheel or not your in your opinion?
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J.B. Castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos

Post Number: 1359
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Friday, January 19, 2018 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the flywheel is on the wrong side, no way to reverse the cylinder.
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 2437
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Friday, January 19, 2018 - 12:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The majority of these were built with the big flywheel in the exhaust/aft side of the engine.
If it was to have a 2nd flywheel it would have been installed on the igniton/forward side. Now this being said the B stationary engines were built with the flywheels either way depending on what style of pump the engine was driving.
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 4082
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2018 - 03:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*

1902

ps2



*
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mark a vess
Member
Username: oldengineman

Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2018
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2018 - 04:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi to All, again. I just wanted to thank everybody for helping get this engine from a dusty dark corner and into the light of the internet. This site has provided me and others with a wealth of information on early Palmer engines. Great group of knowlagable folks!! Thanks again, Mark Vess
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mark a vess
Member
Username: oldengineman

Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2018
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2018 - 04:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi to All. I am paying your price for a 4 inch by 2.5 inch by .25 inch Palmer engine badge. This badge is for the owners of the Palmer engine above. Can be from another engine model. Can be brass or iron. Must be Palmer and the size listed above. Again, paying your price. Thanks All, Mark
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Robert
Senior Member
Username: robert

Post Number: 929
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2018 - 04:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I see the crank extensions are different lengths; can the flywheel really be on the wrong end? Could the piston not be rotated 180 degrees as well as the cyliunder, or has just the cylinder been rotated, ensuring that the engine will never run again!

And what would you want a second brass tag for Mark?
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 2439
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2018 - 07:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Robert,
The 3 of these that I have seen have the same crank as a marine engine. Jeff K has a Marine Model B that I had and it has a stationary crank in it. The marine crank had a bad flywheel key. The cylinder can't be rotated as the bolt holes between the top and bottom of the crankcase aren't exact. Plus you would loose the line bore of the main bearings. Palmer simply turned the whole engine around or swapped the flywheel when used on a large pump base to get the flywheel they wanted to use aimed at what ever style pump it was running. As long as the piston is properly orientated to put the intake baffle towards the transfer port the rest of the engine doesn't care.
Take a look here. There are several picks down in the post a ways. Yes the pics are the model B 2 HP but they are the same. Just smaller.

http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/3430/102378.html

Here is 1 pic from the link above showing the big flywheel on opposite ends of the crank with a different application.
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mark a vess
Member
Username: oldengineman

Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2018
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2018 - 03:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi to All. I am paying your price for a 4 inch by 2.5 inch by .25 inch Palmer engine badge. This badge is for the owners of the Palmer engine above. Can be from another engine model. Can be brass or iron. Must be Palmer and the size listed above. Again, paying your price. Thanks All, Mark
This badge is for the owner of the Palmer for sale listed above. Her great, great grandfather was the owner of Palmer Bros. She wants the tag off this engine. Any buyer wants the origional tag with the engine. I need to offer her another another Palmer tag to keep the engine complete. Thanks, Mark
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 2441
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Monday, January 22, 2018 - 05:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mark,
If her great great grandfather was the owner he was a Palmer.
Send me an e-mail
Click my name to the left for it
Ernie
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mark a vess
Member
Username: oldengineman

Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2018
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2018 - 08:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ernie. Your request has been sent to Palmer. Yes, that is her name.
Palmer D Marrin is selling her Palmer engine. Her great great grandfather Frank T. Palmer who resided in Cos Cob, CT made Palmer engines.
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 2442
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2018 - 07:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks
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Robert
Senior Member
Username: robert

Post Number: 931
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2018 - 11:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Ernie; I wasn't aware Palmer made pumps.

That's a very pertinent link to this discuss.

I suppose if the engine's provenance can be established beyond reasonable doubt that would add to the value considerably - at least for some people!

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