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Head Gaskets

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robert_ray
Member
Username: robert_ray

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 02:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Richard, I have determined from talking to every major supplier of the std. C-60 head gasket kit that none of them are copper. I can have one made here in Ca. for 75.00$, also the one the previous owner installed was the std. non copper gasket he purchased locally.

Iím concerned by this, when I begin to dis-assemble the motor what will I find?
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richardday
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 401
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 08:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So all may understand hopefully once and for all the IHC Cub Lo-Boy, C-60 engine and the Palmer M-60 AKA P-60 only the engine portion of the tractor came from IHC. C-60 happens to be the Cubic Inch displacement of the IHC engine and the Palmer engine are identical except for its marine trim. It is also 60 Cubic inch displacement. To the best of my knowledge IHC never supplied a copper head gasket for the Palmer converted engines. Palmer supplied the copper gaskets. No tractor dealer can be expected to have copper head gaskets for the tractor as they all run with fresh water and in many cases 50:50 anti freeze and fresh water.
The copper gasket is required for salt water if problems are to be avoided. I have had several people tell me that they ran into trouble trying to use the tractor gasket with salt water cooling. My recomendation is to get a good tractor head gasket and take it to a gasket maker and have a compressible copper head gasket made with copper rings around the water passages and the cylinder openings. I cannot offer any additional information regarding tractor head gasket life in salt water.
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Len
Visitor
Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 02:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had water coming into the back cylinder of my Palmer P-60. At first I thought would be the head gasket, but with the head off I turned the engine over by hand a few times and notice water coming in through the intake valve. I will be taking the intake manifold off next. Is this a common problem with the P-60.
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Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 685
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 05:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you see water only in the aft cylinder intake? If that is the case I suspect a rust through in the water jacket of the block at that cylinder location and not the exhaust manifold. I don't know if it is a common problem as this is the first problem of this kind I am aware of. If you have a good exhaust manifold then you can simply rebuild a junk IHC Cub Lo-Boy c-60 engine block using your marine trim and crankshaft. If you do that make sure you save every thing from you current engine until you have rebuilt the new engine as you will need all the unique Palmer bolt on parts.
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David Blakey
Member
Username: catboater

Post Number: 13
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 08:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've just encountered a similar finding as Lea, except in mine water wells up through the exhaust valve, only in the aft cylinder. Is this also likely a localized rust-through, or, since water comes in through the exhaust valve does this mean my exhaust manifold is bad?
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Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 686
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I will take a guess that it is a localized rust through. Myself I would pull the exhaust manifold hoses off. Plug the air bleed line at the forward end of the head. plug one end of the manifold hose and and put about 20lbs. water pressure on the manifold water jacket circuit via the other hose. This will avoid removing the manifold from the engine. Not sure how your particular cooling water is injected into the exhaust line so don't forget to deal with that aspect. This should quickly reveal if itis the manifold rather than a block rust through. A similar presure test can be conducted on the block if the head has not been removed. If the engine is fresh water cooled cooled rust through of either the block or the manifold would not be my first thougt. In this case I would suspect the head gasket is the source of the water leak. Please let us know what you find.
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David Blakey
Member
Username: catboater

Post Number: 14
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 01:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Richard. The pressure check is a good next step for me. My engine is fresh water cooled. I just finished replacing the head gasket, thinking that was the problem. I had the head milled flat while it was off. So I don't think this is a head or gasket problem. We'll see. Thanks again.
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Richard A. Day Jr.
Senior Member
Username: richardday

Post Number: 687
Registered: 11-2003


Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 06:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well there is always the possible source of water in the aft cylinder is water being partially blocked in the exhaust line where it joins the manifold. Over time a carbon ring can build up there and depending how your cooling water is injected into the exhaust line water can get into the aft cylinder.
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John W Clough
Member
Username: cluffermon

Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 07:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So when I run my engine with anti-freeze does that mean I do NOT need a copper head gasket?
I have decided to "hide" a heat exchanger in the transom near the engine rather than use a keel cooler. My 100 year old launch will probably be trailered a fair amount and be beached etc. Not to mention the appeal of showing this boat w/o the keel cooler
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Eddie Ross
Senior Member
Username: eddie

Post Number: 225
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 09:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, IFFFF (big if) you are running the engine with an enclosed system (heat exchanger) or if you are operating in a fresh water lake, you can use a regular steel alloy tractor head gasket. Note that if you pull off the cylinder head, new after market cylinder heads are still available. You would need to drill and tap a !/8 " pipe thread hole into the top, forward end for air bleed hose.
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kevin stone
New member
Username: kdstone

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 06:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also have a p-60 with fresh water cooling. If I understand the last post correctly. I do not need to be concerned with which head gasket I have. Is this correct?

Kevin
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Eddie Ross
Senior Member
Username: eddie

Post Number: 226
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 10:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You have an enclosed system with a heat exchanger that uses anti-freeze?
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kevin stone
Member
Username: kdstone

Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 05:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes

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