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Water pump

Old Marine Engine » Gray Motor Co - early 1 and 2 cylinder » Water pump « Previous Next »

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Frank Petran
Member
Username: frank_petran

Post Number: 10
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Monday, May 18, 2009 - 08:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back working on my 4.5R. As this engine is a stationary model it has gear type water pump. The houseing, gears are OK. What isn't is the shaft. I can have another one made up but before that I need to know if the bushing that holds the lower end of the shaft and gear assembly is poured babbit or a bronze oil bushing. This engine is poured babbit and hole is not centered in the casting. I cleaned up the pump flange and the engine flange. I dry fitted the pump with the shaft and it looks like I have to either make a thick gasket for the matting flanges, pour a new babbit bushing or install a oil bushing. It looks like a 1/2 by 3/4 bushing. I can't make out the pump manufacture as some of the lettering is not readable. It starts as M L OBER??RFE? Brass Co, Syacuse. Casting number is 041/2. Any correlation with engine size? As the gear tappered pin was sheared almost flush with the shaft the gear came off with to much of a problem I plan to drill and tap the gear and use a SS set screw to hold it in place. My ultimate goal is to replace the gear drive pump with a plunger type but for now I sill am in need of a flywheel and spacer along with a ignition source. Any help with the water pump question and any source for the flywheel would be great. Thanks
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chris johnson
New member
Username: chris_johnson

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 10:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

my engine is a o4r3809 and it is a stationary I would like to see a picture of your 145r12927 and see if your pump is the same as mine thanks chris
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William Schaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller

Post Number: 263
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 11:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.oberdorfer-pumps.com/

is the name on the pump. Why replace the pump with a plunger, anyway?
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William Schaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller

Post Number: 264
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 11:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

here is the pump on my stationary.

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Frank Petran
Member
Username: frank_petran

Post Number: 14
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 02:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

William, the reason for changing the pump to a plunger style is I want to install this engine in a launche that I hope to begin restoring this fall. Thus need to go backwards as I don’t have a reverse gear assembly and you can’t suck water from the exhaust pipe. Chris, Have to work on resizing the pictures but it looks like the one that William Schaller posted.
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William Schaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller

Post Number: 265
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 03:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Frank, I don't remember, but are you sure you have a stationary? Because if it is an actual stationary, it is 100 times more rare than a boat motor, and I would just trade you a boat motor for it, instead of seeing a stationary made into a boat motor.
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Frank Petran
Member
Username: frank_petran

Post Number: 15
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 04:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bill, I bought this motor at The Badger Steam Engine and Swap Meet in Baraboo WI. May 2. This is farm country and it was on a trailer full of farm stuff, 2 hit miss engines and the lady was a farmer's wife. A engine with a directional gear pump and no reverse gear wouldn't be the best thing to put in a boat. It would be akin to the Mercury outboard old Dock Buster style engine. Stop it, flip the switch to go in reverse, hit the start button and pray that it did. Next question, What is the difference between Stationary and Marine? Could that be why my model number has a 1 in front of 4.5R. Frank mrwoodboat@wi.rr.com
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William Schaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller

Post Number: 266
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 04:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Frank,
Baraboo is on the Baraboo river, a nice place to have a boat motor in 1915. You could go to New Orleans, or to Green Bay from there with a boat and that motor. Your motor would be a lot better to put in a boat than to row all that way. Stationary engines had a governor, boat motors don't need one, they have the prop to govern.

here are the stationary with flyball governor in the spoked flywheel.

http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/3431/131285.html

Here are some marine engines with your type pump.

http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/3431/321.html


and, go through this whole thread here, and you will see that Gray sold them that way as boat motors.

http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/3431/1255.html

and you will see you probably have a boat motor, because the stationary is a whole lot rarer. A good motor boat man back then would have no problem in a boat with that motor, and if he had some money, he would just buy a tranny for it.


here is a boat motor with a tranny. the flywheel is off, and the oiler is for a model S only.

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William Schaller
Senior Member
Username: billschaller

Post Number: 267
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is the pump and timer. If you find some, let me know, I could use a bunch.

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Frank Petran
Member
Username: frank_petran

Post Number: 16
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 05:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mine motor looks simular to the one pictured. Except for the copper pipe going into the water jacket behind the pump. What is that for and where does it come from (is this the oiler system. Also don't have the extra linkage from the timer indent to the carburator.

4.5R pics and pump





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Frank Petran
Member
Username: frank_petran

Post Number: 17
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 04:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sorryh for the poor quality of the pump. They look better on my computer prior to cutting the resolution down. Will try the motor pics

4.5R #12927











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miro forest
Senior Member
Username: miro

Post Number: 377
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 06:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Congrats on having the bevel gear covers.
They are oe of the first things that gets taken off and never replaced.
Please take good care of them.
miro

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