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old marine reverse reduction gears

Old Marine Engine » Gears, Transmissions, and Propellers » old marine reverse reduction gears « Previous Next »

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fiori
Posted on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 02:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From:Gfiori2@aol.com
For academic purposes I am looking after pre WW2 reverse reduction gearboxes information (essentially designs all power range)Help strongly wished Thanks
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rbprice
Posted on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 09:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well you could start by looking at the History and Info heading on the home page here. That lists some of the old time gearbox manufacturers. I have some old literature from the gearbox manufacturers.

What specific info are you looking for - types of gear arrangements i.e., planetary vs. straight reduction, helical vs. spur gears, enclosed vs. open, ratios, etc.??????

Bob Price
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richarddurgee
Posted on Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 12:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Collecting and restoring marine engines from the
teens and earlier,I have a list with the heading " Early Reverse Gear Makers " I'm sure that there are many more names that can be added to this list,and each maker had several sizes and styles for different horse power and applications.
1. Baldridge
2.Gray
3.Ferro
4.Little Joe's
5.Johnson Marine
6.The Navy Gear
7.Palmer
8.Standard
9.Paragon
10.Ball
11.The Automatic
12.Westman
13.Oxford
14.Wolverine
15.Pearl
16.Michigan Wheel Co.
17.National Gears
18.Gies Gears
19.Marine Iron Works Gears
20.The Capitol
21.Perfection
22.Tuttle
I have old ad pictures and limited info about
some of these makers,if any interest.
johnson
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rbprice
Posted on Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 10:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard are you aware that the Carlyle-Johnson company is still in business? They make industrial clutches and brakes.

Cheers

Bob
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Bruce
Posted on Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 10:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Add Snow-Nabstat(sp) and Petrelli ; Later Snow-Petrelli. Bruce
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Richard Day
Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 07:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doesn't Joes Gears fall in here with Snow and Nabstat and Snow and Petrelli?
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richarddurgee
Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 09:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is from an april 1929 article in Motor Boat
Magazine.
"JOES GEARS and WHAT"S BEHIND 'EM!
The New Haven firm of Snow and Petrelli, makers of
JOES FAMOUS GEARS,was organized in 1906 with Levi
Snow and Joseph Petrelli. In 1916 petrelli withdrew from the Co. and Arthur Nabstedt came on board. By 1929 they made Joes Gears, Little Joes Gears,Joes duplex Drive Gear,Joes 200 Series Gear,
Joes Husky Gear.
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Richard Day
Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 11:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Richard that really clarifys the matter. Palmer Bros. used Snow and Petrelli, Snow and Nabstedt and I think Joes Navy Gear on the YT-1 as well as their own reverse gear in later production.
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Scurvy
Posted on Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 08:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looking for information on Thames marine propulsion Systems gearbox....it is coupled to a perkins 4-cyl diesel at present and has blown a seal.
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Hidrolux Ltda
Visitor
Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 04:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleagues, looking for Twin Disc MG5606-1 2.96:1 surplus pinions PN XB5663 23T
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steve c
Visitor
Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 02:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

need info on snow nabstedt gearbox on 100 hp ford diesel
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Lew Gage
Visitor
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 06:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a Star Marine aluminum case with Capitol reverse gear installed on a 1949 Ford Flathead V8. This transmission is rated at 150+/- HP. I purchased this unit new in 1955 and have lost the owners installation/ field adjustment manual. Does anyone out there have one of these manuals. I can send pictures of the internals and exterior.
Regards, Lew Gage
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rsteele
Visitor
Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 05:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello I recently accuited a volga 24 (hull)with out v drive, trans or motor. just A prop shaft and log, strut mount, prop and rudder! thinking bout powering it w/mazda rotory any ideas? where to get the nessery marine pices? bob steele rms@steeletruck.com
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Jeff Barbaro
Visitor
Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2010 - 09:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a reverse gear with Auto Engine Works Model # EF 200 stamped on the top cover. "The Capital" is also stamped on the top. It is installed in a 1953 Chris Craft kit boat built by my uncle. When he passed away he left it for me and I'm about halfway finished restoring it. The engine is a 239 Ford Y-block. I'm trying to find out what kind of oil goes in the reverse gear. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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miro forest
Senior Member
Username: miro

Post Number: 485
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 10:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In a pinch, I'd use 40 SAE motor oil.
It should be too much heavier than that .
miro
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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 329
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 10:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

richard durgee,

Do you have this one?

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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 2442
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 10:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*
Johnny, I didnt have this one- Thanks-

Have this in the shop

det

*
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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 330
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 11:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is that reverse gear manufactured by DEW? Sure looks like it. I would love to have one of those.
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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 331
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 11:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another DEW Advert. This is the only scan I have of this one, not very good quality.
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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 332
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 11:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a few more DEW adverts I found.

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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 334
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 07:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Standard gear company what bought out by another Detroit company, just not sure who it was? maybe Detroit Engine Works? Doing research now.

Maybe Scott Peters knows the answer to this one. Anyone else?
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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 335
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 07:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard Durgee, If you don't mind me asking what name is on your reverse gear with the brass tag?
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 2448
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 10:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*
Johnny, I looked for a file photo of the tag but don't have one. I believe it says Standard on it ? Standard, Gray, and Detroits sure look to be the same design, different location of shifters and inspection plates but I believe they are all of same design, in 1913 Gray catalog they have photo of the Detroit gear and say they developed the trans, I have other info that Gies actually designed the gear for Gray and Gray had a Detroit gear mfgr make them.
Am away for several days when i get back remind me and I'll dig into the facts a little better !

*
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Brad Hunter
Member
Username: silverghost

Post Number: 28
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Friday, January 20, 2012 - 01:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OSCO Motors early on sold their own marine transmission gear when they were still located in Philadelphia.
My uncle had a Ford Flathead six with the name OSCO cast in script on the transmission marine gear case lid.
I don't know if this was a Paragon marine gear with a private label name cast into it's cover or not ?
It was similar design to the Paragon~~but not quite the same ?

Early On Chris~Craft built their own custom marine gearboxes also~~~ but only for their very big displacment limited production race engines.
I have one on my early 1930s Chris~Craft A120 "A" racing engine .
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jay ziegler
Member
Username: jziegler

Post Number: 15
Registered: 11-2011
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2012 - 07:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

would any one have a cross section drawing showing the inner workings of a Ball reversing gear, any information would be appreciated....
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Arjen Boon
Visitor
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2014 - 05:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My GM 671 in my ship is equipped with a reverse gear under patent 1571210 (1926, you can google it), probably made by The Capitol/Auto Engine Works. I have no further info on it. If anyone could help me out, I am much obliged.
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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 492
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 10:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard Durgee, Here is some more info you can add to your library. Found this in a April 1913 Motor Boating Mag page 10. As I said in my previous post on this thread I thought another company had bought out Detroit Standard Gear Co. I just was not sure who. It appears that it was DEW & Detroit Gear Co. that purchased DSGC. I'm still not sure of the relationship between DGC & DEW but hope to figure it out also. If DEW did not own DGC then they must have had some kind of partnership because DEW tagged their reverse gear boxes with brass tags that stated they were the manufacture. Photo's below of a DEW Detroit reverse gear and a Detroit Standard Gear Co. reverse gear.






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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 493
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 11:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Reverse gears above are owned by Gene Fisher & Richard Alcock. Thanks for letting me use your photo's.

Sense posting the above article from Motor Boating magazine I have discovered that this article may have an Error in it. Scott Peters & I have not been able to find any evidence that Detroit Gear Co. were successors to the Standard Gear Co. Matter of fact we have found it to be just the opposite. It appears that Standard Gear Co. may have been the successors to Detroit Gear Co. Research still in progress.
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3419
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 04:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*
John

I was away and missed the post of Dec 6.

From memory it seems that DEW was out of business
by about 1921 ??? Standard Gear advertised I believe after that ? I'll see what I can find !


*
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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 494
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 05:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Correct, I think it was around 1920 or 1921 when DEW went out of bussness. I have adverts showing DEW selling these reverse gears as early as 1908 and stating they manufactured them. Scott Peters info shows that Standard Gear Co. formed in 1912. Seems a little weird that a company that would have only been about a year old would have bought out another company that had already been in business for four or five years at least.
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3420
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 06:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*
Like a lot of things the mfgr of reverse gears, or who mfgrd them is a larger story ?


1912

Gs1
Gs2



*
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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 495
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2014 - 07:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree Richard, Scott Peters ask me about the Gies Co. and if I thought they could be involved with Detroit gear & Standard gear. Looks like they probably were. according to your literature Gies may have been the one with the brains.
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ScottP
Visitor
Posted on Monday, December 15, 2014 - 06:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,
Looks like Gies Brothers personally supervised the construction of the DEW Detroit Gears in 1909, per American Exporter, January 1909, p. 133--hope this helps you out, Johnny.
Scott Peters
https://books.google.com/books?id=Z5JBAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA133&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=A CfU3U1IDkpXxD4Pw5hFCC_FOUI0fvjjoQ&ci=23%2C39%2C895%2C515&edge=0
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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 496
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2014 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott's link, Detroit Gear



I wonder if Gies bros also designed the Standard reverse gear?

Thank's for all the info everyone.
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ScottP
Visitor
Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2014 - 08:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi folks,
I think this might be a rough working chronology for the companies that Frank G. Gies was involved in, still subject to further research and evaluation:
Frank G. Gies & Co. (1905-1906)
Gies Gear Company (1906-?)
Gies Brothers (late 1907-?. Gies and his brother Clarence left Gies Gear Co. by the end of 1907. Built the Baldridge gear under this name.)
Detroit Engine Works, Detroit Gear[division?](1907-1909?)
Gies-Hoyt Manufacturing Company (Inc. March 6, 1909)
Standard Gear Company (Inc. 1909?)
Standard Gear Supply Company (ad source dated 1912 by Richard Durgee)

Detroit Standard Gear Company (Inc. late Sept. or early October 1912. Emerged out of Standard Gear Co., but the Gies brothers do not appear to have been involved, so it forms a different relationship line.)
Still trying to figure it all out. Frank Gies assigned two of his patents to Gies Gear Company, but they were not awarded until after he left the firm.
Scott Peters
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ScottP
Visitor
Posted on Monday, December 22, 2014 - 03:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It gets worse...Two "Standard Gear Company" firms, same city, but a decade apart:
Standard Gear Company [II]
Attention is called in this issue to the announcement of the Standard Gear Company, of Detroit, Mich. This company was recently reorganized with D. A. Mead as general manager and W. R. Mead chief engineer, who purchased the entire interests of the Langtry Machine & Tool Company, formerly manufacturers of the gear.
W. R. Mead is a man of wide practical experience in gear design and manufacture. He designed the original gear used in the Cadillac motor and was with the Cadillac company for many years, later becoming chief enquirer [sic—engineer?] in charge of gear design for the General Motors Company. He has joined with his brother in the Standard Gear enterprise and his valuable experience is already reflected in refinements in the design and construction of the Standard gear, long known to the motor boat trade.
Some important announcements will be made by the company in regard to their plans before long. The new company is also making an aggressive sales effort, the entire sales being in charge of D. A. Mead, a business man well-known in Detroit.
The Standard Gear Company is desirous of entering into distributing agency arrangements in the principal coast marine centers.
Pacific Motor Boat, Vol. 12, May 1920. P. 34.
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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 497
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Monday, December 22, 2014 - 10:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amazing what you discover when you start researching. I seen some adverts on Google Books for Detroit Standard Gear Co. dated 1920 I believe. I'm fairly sure DEW was still selling their gears up to at least 1910 because I have an original literature advertising their gear and it is dated Feb 8, 1910. Also states that they sold more reverse gears in 1908 & 1909 then any other Co.
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Robert
Senior Member
Username: robert

Post Number: 652
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2014 - 11:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting that the 1909 clipping states, "the Gies Brothers were formerly manufacturers of the Baldridge reverse gear, which is well known to the general public." So either they built it under license or they were the only makers of the Baldridge? Curious because I have a couple of Baldridge gears which look a lot like the Detroit shown above
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ScottP
Visitor
Posted on Thursday, December 25, 2014 - 08:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There was an arrangement between Gies Brothers and Smith and Baldridge Machine Co., also of Detroit, regarding the Baldridge Gear:
...The Smith & Baldridge Machine Company, of Detroit, Mich., advise us that the company has succeeded in getting entire and exclusive control of the Baldridge reverse gear, formerly advertised in these pages by Gies Bros., and sold by them exclusively. Some trouble was experienced recently when Smith & Baldridge commenced a campaign of advertising the sales of these gears. An injunction, prohibiting them from selling or manufacturing these gears under the name of “Baldridge” was served, and greatly hampered the preparations to increase the volume of sales. Smith & Baldridge and Gies Bros. have succeeded in coming to a mutually agreeable settlement, whereby Smith & Baldridge are to pay the latter concern a stipulated cash sum for any and all interest, past and future, that they might have in the sale of these popular gears.
S & B now have the large factory running to ts fullest capacity, and have already done much to improve their gear, both as to materials and high class workmanship. Special prices are being quoted on these gears for Fall buyers. Prices will be gladly sent on request to Motor Boat readers.
Motor Boat, Vol. V, No. 16, August 25, 1908. P. 49.
Not sure how Gies Brothers got the rights for building the Baldridge gear in the first place, but this is yet another piece in the puzzle.
Scott Peters
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3428
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Friday, December 26, 2014 - 04:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*
Scott, Your input here is always appreciated, in this case a lot of answers to some old questions have been addressed !

Smith & Baldridge was a marine engine manufacturer

1907

s7m07


January of 1908 there is no mention of reverse gears.


s7mj08


Six months later 1908 this ad article shows up with photo of a GIES Reverse Gear ?

s7mgear



Baldwin I believe gets the credit for enclosing
the gear assembly ??


*
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3429
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Friday, December 26, 2014 - 04:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*

The Marine Reverse Gear business was a large industry, this 1912 index of mfgrs is interesting.


a1
a2


*
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b snider
New member
Username: sneederbee

Post Number: 2
Registered: 09-2015
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2015 - 07:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

also this Chinook Seattle 1:1 F-N-R gearbox. Not sure what year it's from.

Chinook 1:1 Gearbox
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Dave richardson
New member
Username: richo

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2017 - 04:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all I have a Detroit reverse gear box like the one in John Davis post. I have reverse gear but when I put it in drive I can grab and stop the drive shaft. Any help on how to fix would be appreciated as I can’t find any info on the old girl. Thanks in advance Richo
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J.B. Castagnos
Senior Member
Username: jb_castagnos

Post Number: 1342
Registered: 07-2002


Posted on Friday, November 10, 2017 - 10:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

These gears usually use a band for reverse, clutches for forward.If there is any friction material left on the clutches you may be able to adjust them.There is usually an adjustment to make up for wear.Open the box and move the lever to forward-neutral, watch what's happening. There should be a way to make the lever push the clutches harder.

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