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Looking for Blaxland-Chapman Pup engine

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Chris
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 11:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am hoping to find some information on where I might be able to purchase a Blaxland-Chapman Pup engine in the U.S. I read about a 2 1/2 HP version of this engine in the Sept/Oct Wooden Boat Magazine which was owned by Alan Graham(located in Goolwa, Australia), and I became very interested. It was a main article about steamboats on the Murray River in Goolwa.

I intend to use this engine in my 16 foot wooden launch - a 1920 Gilbert Launch V-hull, made in Brooklyn, NY. I live in upstate New York and hope that there are resources for this engine a little bit closer to home in the U.S., without having to look in Australia - although any information would be appreciated. I can be reached at cmbarry@attglobal.net. Thanks!

-Chris
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Rob
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 07:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Chris, I'm located in Melbourne, Australia. Is there any reason you particularly want a Chapman/Blaxland engine? I'm a big fan, but having said that, they're a rather basic affair, certainly nothing unusual.... Blaxland-Chapman single cylinder engines came in a number of sizes:
Standard Pup - 2 1/2 HP
Master Pup - 3 HP (I have 2 of these)
Blaxland Pup - 3 1/2 HP
Super Pup - 4 1/2 HP (the 'super' is also featured in that copy of wooden boat, in a 13ft boat of the same name - and it's over-powered!)

I would consider a 16ft boat, especially an older, heavy hull, to be under-powered with the 2 1/2 HP engine.............. I'm hoping to build a 16ft double-ender next year, strip plank construction (fairly light) and I'll be putting a 4HP Penguin into it....

As to availability, they're pretty easy to come by down here, but I seriously doubt that any were sent to the US........

Good Luck!

Rob
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andrew
Posted on Saturday, November 03, 2001 - 05:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris,
I would agree with Rob that the Blaxland-Chapman Pup engine is a nice engine... but comparible to many that are more available in the US.

If hang around this site and check the Antique Inboard category of the classifieds, as well as ebay and your local gas engine shows, you will discover that early inboards are not hard to find.

Good luck.

Regards,
Andrew
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Jackol
Visitor
Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 05:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi there, I have just acquired a CHAPMAN MASTER PUP, I live Bribie Island,need help,eg. looking at flywheel should it spin clockwise, the arrow shows anti clock, I assume it is 2stroke?,timing seems way ahead of T.D.C.seen one on U tube seems to pump water through exhaust?
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Laurie Derwent
Member
Username: laurie_d

Post Number: 21
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 07:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jackol, I'm not sure about the differences between the 'Pup' and the 'Master Pup' but you may consider this: The Blaxland petrol motors are 2 stroke (32:1). The twins (and I understand the pup, are set up to run in either direction with timing adjusted by turning the magneto which has two lock positions. For the twin the clockwise running position (looking from the front and opposite to the direction of the arrow) is with the magneto perpendicular to the crankshaft and the magnto is offset from perpendicular to run anticlockwise. A well tuned motor can be reversed without stalling by slowing it to just above stall and swapping the magneto position. You can thus set your motor to run according to the direction of your propellor. The standard exhaust receives cooling water from the outlet at the top of the block into the top of the muffler. The water and exhaust is mixed in the muffler and I've not heard of problem of water coming back into the manifold or cylinder. Good luck with it and enjoy life with a Blaxland!
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David Myers
Senior Member
Username: dave_myers

Post Number: 79
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 09:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jackol, The Master Pup is 3 HP. As Laurie said the Fuel mixture is 32:1. Do not use Outboard Oil!!
The Flywheel on that motor is on the rear of the motor. It faces the Stern of the boat and runs Anti-Clockwise.
You could contact Allen Graham at Tourbul or Stan Wood in Caloundra ( hd45wood@y7mail.com ). They should both be in the phone book. The water is in the exhaust to keep the exhaust cool and also to silence the motor as well, plus it is an easy way to get rid of cooling water.

There are plenty of others here as well that can add their bit.

Cheers,

Dave
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David Myers
Senior Member
Username: dave_myers

Post Number: 80
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 09:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I meant to add. The timing is 2 inches before TDC, measured from the TDC mark on the flywheel circumference.

Dave
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quinton wilkinson
Member
Username: qwilkin

Post Number: 6
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 09:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have restored a 4.8 metre wooden boat origonally built in Portland and design came from Popular Mechanics 2 were built , I believe, and is powered by a blaxland twin . Boat and engine done very little work boat first registered in 1970 used to go off Indented head long line fishing . obviously engine tanks prop clutch etc all bought togehter .
Are there any blaxland experts in and around Geelong and Ballarat District so I can get assistance with the engine checked and started . No cracks in castings, spins fine mag has good spark rebuilt carb, all seems in order??
Quinton
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Laurie Derwent
Member
Username: laurie_d

Post Number: 23
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 11:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

David, I noet your comment not to use outboard oil in the Blaxlands. I have used 1/2 outboard oil and 1/2 50 grade oil to make up my 32:1. I mix it with premium unleaded. Is this likely to create problems for my donk? Laurie
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Bruce Findlay
Advanced Member
Username: bruce_findlay

Post Number: 50
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 12:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Laurie,

This subject has been well and truly dealt with in earlier postings, the link to which is below.

http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/3452/101555.html

DO NOT USE PETROL WITH ANY ETHANOL CONTENT.

Cheers,

Bruce.
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David Myers
Senior Member
Username: dave_myers

Post Number: 81
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 12:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Laurie, No it will not create any problems as far as lubrication goes. The main problem is that the 2 stroke oil does not completly burn and will at worst foul the plug and leaves a very sooty residue on the hull at the exhaust. It is designed for the modern High Speed motors. Valvolene make a single grade 30 weight oil. Penrite also do the same. Most Multigrade oils are ok as well. With the Muli some of us go out to 40:1 and still lube ok. Personal preference.

Cheers

Dave
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Laurie Derwent
Member
Username: laurie_d

Post Number: 24
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 01:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bruce and David,
Thanks for your advice. I'd read some of the older stuff on OME but had not seen that discussion on two stroke mix or grease for Blaxlands. It seems there is stil some debate. I must add that since I started using hald and half 50 grade and outboard oil I have not noticed any change in the deposits on my plugs or the side of the boat at the exhaust. I only use the boat rarely and then it may get a run of several hours straight.

This brings me to the question of water pump lubrication on th Blaxland for suc long runs. Is there a 'rule' about how often one should lubricate the saddle bearing?

Now that Aub Rose is no longer with us at least one of the 'horse's mouth's' cannot be consulted. I understand that neither Jack Forrest or Ray Patterson are either? Speaking of Aub, a friend has told me that all the parts etc from Aub's premises were sold for scrap?

Meanwhile, the discussion about the sump on a Blaxland makes me wonder if a small quantity of outboard gearbox oil (which contains an emulifier) wuld be a good idea to absorb any condensation?

I also have to admit the mention of not using a modern oil in a Simplex or Clae has also made me realise the value of OME. Having recently filled my Simplex twin (which has yet to be fitted to the boat) with a Penrite Marine 4 stroke oil I will now be aware of one reason why the gearbox might not do what I want.

Thanks again, Laurie
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BILL COTTER
Visitor
Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2010 - 10:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi there if your looking for Blaxland Chapman Pup complete propellor dog clutch shaft and stuffing boxes check out e/bay I just listed them.01/08/10
Regards Bill e-bay name 8406WILLIAM
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John MIra
Visitor
Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 07:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

FOR SALE - Blaxland Chapman Twin model TXRR/GB with a BOSCH magneto, all in running order. Exhaust manifold is corroded, jacketed exhaust pipe & muffler OK. Includes monel fuel tank, gear box, shaft & two bladed prop - AU$1,200 ph. +61 438514204
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Laurie Derwent
Senior Member
Username: laurie_d

Post Number: 62
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 01:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh if only I could convince she who is holding the purse strings pending the daughter's wedding!!! Interesting that it has a two bladed prop.

Meanwhile: a single Blaxland comes with a boat on Gumtree asking $8500: Look in the www at:
sydney.gumtree.com.au/c-Boats-Jet-Skis-boats-jet-skis-other-Putt-Putt-Clinker-Ti mber-Boat-W0QQAdIdZ227236887
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quinton wilkinson
Member
Username: qwilkin

Post Number: 20
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 01:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a 4.5mtre wooden boat and have a twin cylinder Blaxland powering it . I would have thought that a pup would be working overtime to push a 16 footer . Blaxlnad Chapman Marine are still in existence in Glocester Tops road NSW tel 0265583182 sometimes they have re con second hand ones .Quinton
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Laurie Derwent
Senior Member
Username: laurie_d

Post Number: 63
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 07:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quinton, Clearly some of us (me too) are just petrol heads having twin cylinder motors when one will do! The pup is quite happy pushing a 16' clinker boat especially in a place like the Woronora which is substantially 4 knot speed limit. The boat on Gumtree is very much like so many of the old hire launches that typically had blaxland pups. Regards.
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Maree Katherine Coulson
New member
Username: maree_coulson

Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2011
Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2011 - 12:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a old Clae Marine gear box just been done up
we havent had the Motor Sailor boat very long am wondering just what is the correct oil i should be using in this gear box ( engine a 35 hp perkins )
Thank you MAree
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Todd Vidgen
Senior Member
Username: todd_vidgen

Post Number: 213
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2011 - 09:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Same as the engine
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Allen Flux
New member
Username: allenf

Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2011
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2011 - 08:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have acquired a Chapman master pup.
The flywheel tdc mark is way off tdc as though the flywheel has spun on the crank shaft. The wormdrive for magneto is incorrectly timed.
The fuel line had a loop which created an airlock .
The exhaust was upside down and it goes on and on.
There is no way this motor could run.
The good thing is that it is in mint condition.
A good little adventure.
Fixed the muffler,removed s/plug to locate tdc,set new points @ 12th and remove locating pin from the Maggie to establish breaker points just opening at tdc and "Bingo" she runs sweet as a nut.
What I want to know is if anyone has any information about these motors.Apparently they were made some time in the 1930's ?
Chapman Evolved into Blaxland/Chapman but when?
My engine plate indicates that it was made under license by Harris Scarfe & Sanders of Perth,Western Australia.
I would love to reassemble it by the book.If you can help with any information at all I would greatly appreciate it.
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Eric Schulz
Senior Member
Username: eric_schulz

Post Number: 66
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2011 - 11:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A brief history of the Chapman and Blaxland engines

Graham Chapman began making marine engines at Erskineville in 1907. In 1919 he took Joe Sherack into partnership. Their most famous engine, the Pup, came out in 1926.

In 1938 Blaxland Rae P/L, Camperdown, began making Chapman engines under licence.

Harris, Scarfe & Sandovers, Perth, began making Chapman engines under licence from 1945 to at least 1952.

Chapman & Sherack were taken over by Blaxland Rae in 1949.

The ignition timing should be before TDC. 2 inches or more of flywheel rim movement before TDC.

Eric
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Allen Flux
Member
Username: allenf

Post Number: 4
Registered: 02-2011
Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2011 - 10:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Eric.
Would you happen to know the Hp.of the Chapman Master Pup? There is next to no information to be found on the internet.My guess would be 3 hp but that is just a stab in the dark.
I noticed your interest in Australian engine and tractor history. Does this mean we can look forward to you releasing a book some time in the future?
Allen
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Eric Schulz
Senior Member
Username: eric_schulz

Post Number: 67
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - 07:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Allen, to answer your questions, 3hp yes, book no!

Eric
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Greg Y
Senior Member
Username: gregoryan

Post Number: 87
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - 01:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are some brochures that i have had for a few years, compliments of the late John Forrest! Unfortunately they had been photocopied a few times in black & white [ the Red came out as black]
Email me for full size pic files.
brochure2
brochure3
brochure4
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Andrew Munns
Advanced Member
Username: johnoxley

Post Number: 38
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - 05:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fun little engines these, although the results of an emissions test on a new engine would be a bit problematic in some countries. I remember trying to preserve some of Aub's gear with the late Tim Mulvey, but failed. I was particularly impressed with the cylinder grinder - Aub said he ground the bores "quarter of a thou smaller at the top" to allow for a warmed up engine. The jigs for welding together two by vee prepped single cylinder crankshafts to make the twin crankshaft were impressive in their simplicity.
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neil r jones
Senior Member
Username: senojn

Post Number: 80
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, October 17, 2011 - 02:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aub ,bless his soul .
Further to Eric's brief history of Chapman/Blaxland , Aub told me that their demise came about due to Blaxland being taken over by REPCO .
Their management immediately closed the marine division .
To Allen , apologies for the play on words but I have attemted for some time through a number of members of this site and others, to establish a written history but it remains in a state of flux .

Neil
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Greg Y
Senior Member
Username: gregoryan

Post Number: 88
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Monday, October 17, 2011 - 03:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a sign that was at Aub's shop. Note that he names Chapman first!
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neil r jones
Senior Member
Username: senojn

Post Number: 81
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, October 17, 2011 - 04:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes Greg ,thanks .
G.V.Rose being his lovely wife .
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Allen Flux
Member
Username: allenf

Post Number: 5
Registered: 02-2011
Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2011 - 07:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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neil r jones
Senior Member
Username: senojn

Post Number: 82
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2011 - 11:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Says it all Allan .
Where were they invented ?

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