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Unidentified 4 cylinder engine on shi...

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Mark Munro
New member
Username: munromh

Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2008 - 12:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello, In the Spring of 2007 our group found a small ~70 foot long shipwreck in Fishers Island Sound, located between Fishers Island NY and Connecticut. Long story short, we believe it sank in the 1938 hurricane, have been unable to identify it, and hope to possibly narrow our search down by identifying the engine. No builder’s plaques, engine or otherwise, have been found on or around the shipwreck. You can view a detailed video survey here:

http://www.soundunderwatersurvey.com/SUS/Wrecks/Three's_a_Charm/Video/Three's_a_ Charm_Engine_Survey.wmv

Should you have any comments, suggestions, or problems viewing the video, please let me know.

Your expertise is greatly appreciated.

Mark Munro
mark@soundunderwatersurvey.com
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Andrew Menkart
Moderator
Username: andrew

Post Number: 943
Registered: 11-2001


Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2008 - 01:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, now that's a challenge for this group!

Maybe you could post a few photos here too in case some users don't have a fast enough internet connection to view the video...
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Robert Holcomb
Member
Username: rholcomb

Post Number: 28
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 04:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It looks like it has 2 spokes in the flywheel,I think i have seen this before it looks like a 2 stroke hot bulb engine with the large side expansion chamber and the caps on the heads
check out this site showing a lot of the manufactures of these types of marine engines.
the rectangle box in the center of the flywheel i believe has the governer in it.
http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Marine/Othmarin.htm bob....
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Mark Munro
New member
Username: munromh

Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 07:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortuantly I don't have many still photo's of the engine but I have attached the ones I do have. I could do grabs from the video if nescessary but they usually don't look as good.



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Mark Munro
New member
Username: munromh

Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 07:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortuantly I don't have many still photo's of the engine but I have attached the ones I do have. I could do grabs from the video if nescessary but they usually don't look as good.
P1010333a.jpg P1010334a.jpg
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Mark Munro
New member
Username: munromh

Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 08:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the suggestions.

Unfortunately I don't have many still photos of the engine but I have attached the ones I do have. I could do grabs from the video if necessary but they usually don't look as good.

It was suggested that this might be a Fairbanks-Morse and a picture on the referenced page does sort of look like this engine. Nothing positive yet.

Fly wheel

,















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Roger DiRuscio
Senior Member
Username: solarrog

Post Number: 322
Registered: 03-2002


Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 11:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looks restorable to me, judging by the miracles I have seen on here. But you would need to provide new homes for all the creatures living in and on the engine
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 874
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 07:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wonder how many times I have sailed over it?
Out of curiosity where is it? I am familiar with Fishers Is Sound.
It looks kind of like a Mianus. In the next few days I will dig up some pics of the bigger Mianus engines.
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Mark Munro
Member
Username: munromh

Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ernie, It's located centrally in the Sound between Latimer Light and Seaflower Reef. Thanks for the lead on the Mianus, being a local company it might be a possibility. Any more info you may have would be greatly appreciated.

Mark
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 876
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 05:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yup I have sailed over it many times
Here is a pic of a 4 cylinder Mianus
Pic is courtsey of CT history on line and Mystic Seaport
Google CT History on line and then search for Mianus. There are quite a few Mianus pics.

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Mark Munro
Member
Username: munromh

Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 01:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well Ernie, you just may be onto something. Those are definitely the closest fit to what I'm seeing on the bottom. The only thing that gives me pause is that in all the engines shown, each cylinder is very separate from one other instead of being one big crank case. Almost like you could have different size/cylinder engines by making a different crankcase and bolting on the correct amount of cylinders.



The upper parts of the cylinders on mine are definitely separate but it appears they sit on a crankcase more similar to this:




No knowing the correct terminology I'm having a difficult time describing the difference I see. The area I'm having trouble with is in red:



Although, maybe that area on my engine is just filled with debris and concretion, I'll have to take a closer look next time.

Pursuing the Mianus engine is definitely a thread to pull on and see what unravels.
.
.
.
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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 878
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mark,
If you notice the space between the cylinders and crankcases gets smaller as the number of cylinders go up. So it may be marine growth etc filling in as you said.
Also this is/was a common style of building engines of that vintage.
What is your best guess on the flywheel dia and overall height of the cylinders.
pics of a Kalenberg
click here and scroll down
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Mark Munro
Member
Username: munromh

Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 07:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Using below as a reference, our engine is at least twice this size:



I did measure the three bladed prop and it's 44" in diameter.

Here's a diver next to the gear:


Here's a diver, lower left, next to the flywheel:


Here's a series of screen grabs from the video:







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Robert Holcomb
Member
Username: rholcomb

Post Number: 29
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 01:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://books.google.com/books?id=nsU6AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA366&lpg=PA365&dq=atlas+gas+en gine&source=web&ots=HZLLx_Cwq7&sig=8YAx_u9s-PCv52O_X31waceKSXs&hl=en&sa=X&oi=boo k_result&resnum=9&ct=result#PPA366,M1

ran accross this????
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Mark Munro
Member
Username: munromh

Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 07:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Robert, although that particular engine doesn't fit the description of the engine I'm interested in, Wow, what a resource "The Rudder" could be. Especially:



I need to spend some time perusing those magazines.
.
.

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