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Unknown Single Cylinder Engine

Old Marine Engine » Unknown Engines - post here with photos » Unknown Single Cylinder Engine « Previous Next »

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Nick Rowland
New member
Username: nar

Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Wednesday, October 28, 2015 - 09:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, my dad was working on this old marine engine & we were wondering if anyone knew what kind it is or what kind of carb it takes? The bolt holes for where the carb bolts to are 2-1/8" apart.

Thanks,

-Nick





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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3696
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2015 - 08:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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Erd Motor Company, Saginaw,Michigan.



erd



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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 4
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2015 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard, thanks for the quick reply & info. Now knowing its name I was able to find quite a bit of info on this web site on Erd.

Thanks again for the help.

-Nick
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B. Goss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss

Post Number: 235
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2015 - 08:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Nick - what's the engine in the picture under your name?
Blair
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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 5
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Friday, October 30, 2015 - 06:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Blair, it's in the books as a Mogul engine but some were sold with a smoke stack & labeled as Monitor engines. The last picture shows a long cylinder (Monitor?) engine, this is the only picture I've seen of that style & it's one of my favorite marine engines. Does anyone have one of these long cylinder Monitors or at least any pics of one?

-Nick

mogul
Monitor
Monitor long cylinder
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3697
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Friday, October 30, 2015 - 08:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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Scroll Down

http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/2/266642.html#POST46387


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John Davis
Senior Member
Username: johnny

Post Number: 553
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Friday, October 30, 2015 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Nick, Welcome to the Old Marine Engine forum. Nice looking Erd you have there. I'm sure you and Ed will have it up and running in no time. You will find some real knowledgeable people on this marine forum and I'm sure the collectors here will discover the great knowledge you and your father have when it comes to these old engines, etc..
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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Saturday, October 31, 2015 - 08:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard, thanks again for the link! I wish there were more of those engines around.

John, thanks & there is a ton of info on this site.

I don't want to blow this thread up with questions but there's some other marines around here I haven't been able to ID, if anyone cares to guess I'll get some pics up.
-Nick
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3698
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Saturday, October 31, 2015 - 07:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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Get some Pics Up !

All four sides gives the best chance at I.D.


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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 07:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

These first few are engines I posted years back on a thread at; http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/3454/102880.html

Here's more info & pictures on them.

This first engine I didn't find any markings or stampings on it or the carb anywhere. One carb is missing & no history came with the engine.



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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 07:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

more pics


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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 07:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The pictures below show the 2nd unknown engine. The first pic shows it when we found it just north of here in Ohio; no history was known on it. It has been modified & is missing a valve chamber on the top side of the cylinder (something like the line drawing engine below). Whoever modified the engine filled the cylinder passages with lead (see pic below of cylinder) & put a cover plate over it. They also drilled a hole into the transfer passage & through into the cylinder to route the mixture more like a standard 2-stroke. Since the compression is higher without the valve box, it looks like they added an ring extension under the head to lower the compression.

The engine had holes drilled in lines underneath the crankcase to break the center out. When my dad rebuilt the engine he found there was no way to tighten the connecting rod bolts through the sides of the crankcase so they probably broke the bottom of the crankcase out to tighten the rod & then set the engine on a plate or wood skid to cover the hole up.

Towards the top center of the front & back of the crankcase there is small square cover plates bolted on. Under these small plates the crankcase had been cut out on each side for clearance for the rocking motion of the connecting rod.

The ignition timer has been on it for a long time but it looks like it was added when the engine porting & head was modified. It's made from cut-out & bent steel. We stuck the carb on it & the engine runs now but I'd like to eventually get it back to how it was originally with the valve chamber.


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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 10
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 07:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

more pics



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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 11
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 07:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

more pics;


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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 12
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 07:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This 3rd engine was found in NY with a piece of paper under the base that said "BERRIE" but I think it's a Barber? Other Barber marines look close & I found a couple larger 4-stroke Barbers with about the same centrifugal pump on them.



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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 13
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 07:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The 4th unknown engine below (the all red one with the carb on top) was thought to be maybe a Kawolsky, or Smalley Bros., or maybe even a vertical Valentynowicz (see patent # 684,011), but last summer a friend bought a Knox stationary engine #208 made in Maine (the green engine with red flywheels below) & it looked similar to our red unknown engine. He let us bring the Knox back to my dads to compare. Most the measurements are close like on the same sub-base & cover plate dimensions, etc. but there are a lot of differences too. I'm searched around for Knox marines but haven't found any with the carb on top.

The red engine was modified to spark plug over the years; it has homemade bent steel wipes for contacts. The governor controlled valve on top is original but the linkage behind the governor flywheel is all homemade. I'd love to find a picture of how it's suppose to be. I've taken paint off the engine in different places looking for stampings but haven't found anything. I back-tracked it through the hands it went through & it came out of an old collection in Massachusetts.



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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 14
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 07:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

more pics;






Sorry for the fuzzy pics, my camera has been on its last leg for awhile. Any info or pics on the above engines is appreciated. Thanks, -Nick
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Andrew Munns
Senior Member
Username: johnoxley

Post Number: 149
Registered: 04-2010
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2015 - 03:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unknown? Location Australia - Dreadnought stamped into bronze side plate plus early Sydney phone numbers. Dreadnought was Sydney company that made engines, but altered bronze plate a mystery as very nice Dreadnought makers plate was usual. Might be import? Bore 3.75". Piston collapsed and barrel exploded. Restored cosmetically. Lubricator, Shebler and maggy borrowed.
Dreadnought1dreadnought2dreadnought3dreadnought4
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RichardDurgee
Senior Member
Username: richarddurgee

Post Number: 3708
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 12:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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Have just transferred these photos to a search file.

1. engine is old and unique with its intake piping,
it may be a stationary engine but with 4 hole flywheel etc I'll see if any matches ?

2. engine is probably the only for sure marine engine ?

3. engine is a water pump Stationary, may have a marine lineage ?

4. engine is a stationary and out of my realm !

If info comes up on these engines I will post here !


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Mark S
Senior Member
Username: marks

Post Number: 163
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2015 - 06:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Andrew,

What are the phone numbers?

I'm pretty sure I know what this is but will need to confirm when I get home as interstate on business.

Dreadnought were Sydney based and from memory in Berry's Bay on the north shore. They did a fair bit of work for defence dept(s)on larger ships although they did sell smaller engines often from Invincible and rebadged.

That's my view at the moment but hopefully I can confirm one way or another when I get home in a few days.

Nice looking engine, pity it was busted.

Cheers,

Mark
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Eric Schulz
Senior Member
Username: eric_schulz

Post Number: 101
Registered: 01-2007


Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2015 - 06:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The phone numbers are X3753 and W1887.

The large CB on the plate would suggest that Dreadnought didn't make the engine, though they were certainly engine manufacturers.

Eric
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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 15
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2015 - 09:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andrew, sorry I can't help with your engine but hopefully something turns up on it. All I know about Dreadnought is from the thread at; http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135664 I think there's a picture of your engine's name tag in post #16 on there. Nice-looking engine!

Richard, thanks again for the info & for keeping an eye out on them.

Attached is a picture of a Knox marine engine I found online that resembles the red & green Knox above. If anyone has a catalog or ever runs across anything showing a Knox marine or stationary with the carb on top like the all red painted engine above, I'd love to know to confirm it's a Knox.

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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 16
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2015 - 09:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This next unknown engine is a stationary but it may have some features linked to a marine engine that can ID it. My dad always calls it a Palmer but I've never run across one quite like it. I'm attaching a an old write-up I found on this engine asking for info. The previous owner had passed away so I wasn't able to find out any info about where it was found at. The water pump in the picture was originally on the engine. The engine is probably around 5 to 7hp.





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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 17
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2015 - 09:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More pics;





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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 18
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2015 - 09:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)





Whoever made the engine seems to have built quite a few because this engine looks to be a switch-over model & was built from various parts. The round bolt-down flange on the cylinder aligns to a square flange on the crank case & the bolt hole patterns were drilled for each other. The crank case also doesn't quite line up with the sub base but again the bolt holes are drilled for each other.

Thanks again for any info,
-Nick
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B. Goss
Senior Member
Username: bgoss

Post Number: 236
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2015 - 09:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1904 Knox stationary
.
k1
.
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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 19
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 - 08:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Blair, thank you for the pic, I'd never seen any literature on either of those styles! My friendís red & green 2-stroke Knox engine above is just like the one shown in your pic. The governor is missing on his engine so your picture will be a big help to restore it.

I read online that Knox started producing engines about 1901 in Rockland, Maine & a man I've talked with said they started experimenting or playing around with engines as early as 1897.



This next one might be a little hard to ID as it's only the unmachined castings for an engine. All I have of it are what is shown. There are two cast bosses on the top side of the crank case, & there's a flat mounting boss cast near the top center of the cylinder that might help to identify it. Any guesses are appreciated.

-Nick





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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 20
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Tuesday, November 17, 2015 - 08:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More pics;





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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 21
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 08:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's another marine I'm not sure of. Someone said it looked like a Callie but I haven't been able to find pictures of one similar, but there's a lot I haven't seen.

Anyone have any clues what it is? We're going to start working on it soon & would like to find what the missing manifold looked like. Thanks!



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Ernie
Senior Member
Username: ernie

Post Number: 2217
Registered: 01-2002


Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 01:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Roberts design. Could have been tagged as a Mullins
Lots of pics here
http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/1/270963.html
Hope this helps
Ernie
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Nick Rowland
Member
Username: nar

Post Number: 22
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2016 - 08:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ernie, thank you! I really appreciate it. That looks like a nice engine in your link & I like that nameplate on it.

I searched around for more info on Mullins, & Roberts & found other engines similar but the exhaust is a little different on most. The only one I seen showing the manifold ours is missing is your engine in the link. Thank you again for the help.

-Nick

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