Atwater Kent Ignition

Author Message   Robert Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 01:32 am:        Richard, you are looking for an Atwater Kent Type H Unisparker, otherwise known as "the clicking points" I have a couple of these and some info I will post here FWIW. Atwater Kent went out of business in 1936 when A. Atwater Kent decided to retire to California and closed his operation, at that time the company must have employed thousands. According to what I have read, A. Atwater Kent invented the distributor as we know it and then branched out into radios. The unisparkers are beautifully made and use much less 'juice' than conventional distributors. Apologies to those who already knew all that and perhaps more!   Joe Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 02:29 pm:        May I interject to say that I have been advised that the Atwater Kent timer is not uni-directional and must be matched to the engine. Also, the Atwater Kent coil must be used. So Richard, you should specify which direction your engine's timer drive turns.   richarddurgee Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 05:17 pm:        Robert, Thanks for the picture, that is the type of timer/ distributor i am looking for, mine turns clockwise, believe the eng to be 1912-14. > Joe, thanks for info also. > Dick Days " Palmer Gas Engine Hand Book" has very good info on Atwater-Kent ignition (available on this site in book store). > What I don't know is how many different types of timers were used on marine engs , and the actual looks of each, and the different coil boxes that match. I have Atwater-Kent coils with tags that say 1.Type B Unisparker 2. system type K 3. coil to be used only with Type -K2 or H (I know now goes to the one pictured above).these are three I Have, probably other types were made. This is a 1909 unisparker from a Roberts eng catalog, it doesn't say what style or type it is ?   Richard Day Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 10:33 pm:        Be careful guys. The AW timer is one that you can ruin very easily. Never burnish the points. The points move faster that the naked eye can track so don't be fooled. The coil puts out a spark that can be up to 2 inches long so be careful you don't get tangled up with it. It will really bite!!! This timer will not work with a typical ignition coil and it will not work with a buzz coil. The two wires between the coil and the timer points should be twisted together so they add a small amount of capacitance across the points. The little push button shown on the coil box is used to start the engine. You prime the engine and then hit the push button and very often the engine will start without cranking. The coils are very hard to find and won't work with typical timers so you have to find both the coil and a distributor. The timer will not work on a two stroke where it runs in either direction on the spark. The timers as mentioned above are made for on direction of rotation or the other but not both in the same timer A bit of history. I understand what happened was the 1930s were the great depression. AW Kent had made a great deal of money in manufacturing and when his people went on strike for more pay he shut the factory fired the help and left town.   Robert Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 11:02 pm:        All those I have seen are counter-clockwise, that is with the bakelite cover removed, the shaft viewed from above, rotates in that direction. Looking at one now, it seems that a clockwise direction would require a different body casting; they cannot be 'reversed' just by reassembly. I had a couple of Type F Unisparkers once, but the one you show Richard, must be even earlier I think. The AK Type H 'guts' were also used on some 1920s Elto outboards I understand and the Type K Unisparker was basically the same mechanism in a different body: one in which the mechanism was mounted on a separate removable plate.   Robert Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 11:25 pm:        Timed out on that posting attempt. Here we go again:   Richard Day Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 07:34 am:        I forgot to add the operational beauty of the Unisparker was the points are always open except for that momentary closure when the cam causes it to operate. This meant that you couldn't wear your battery down when you left the ignition on by mistake. A set of dry cells could last a whole summer with the Unisparker whereas you needed two sets with a buzz coil that you could reverse polarity to avoid point build up and to give the working cells a rest.   richarddurgee Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 06:48 pm:        Robert, great pics, the points plate, with condenser is from a true distrubutor and one of the oldest i've seen. > Dick, That blue spark , push button start and low battery draw, sounds like an ideal ignition for those days , I wonder why it wasn't used by more mfgrs ?? > My oldest grandson is in his second year of engineering at Worcester Polytech Institute in Massachusetts the same one that Atwater Kent attended in the late 1800's. the electrical engineering building there is named after him. The campus story as relayed to me is that AW didn't seem to like to attend classes on a regular basis or do the written work that was assigned,and to top that seems as a prank he took the college presidents favorite horse up into the steeple tower of the main building of the school and then couldn't get the horse back out again. Took a crane and some deconstruction work to retrieve the stallion !! Aw wasn't invited to attend the college after that. Many years later, and after becoming a very successful industrialist, he donated funds to the school and he was one of the first to recieve an Honorary degree from that institute, class of 1900. Went on a tour of the campus and the electrical engineering bldg, from the collection of very old machine shop equipment inside the entrance to the hands on labs it definately has a powerful presence of the prior hundred forty years of developing the ideas and machines that set the industrial revolution in motion. reminded me that when the old iron that we are so fond of here on this site passed through these halls it was cutting edge technology, now, but for the few of us involved , the practical application of this knowledge is all but forgotten.   Richard Day Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 09:01 pm:        Richard there was a competitor system made but it slips my mind at the moment. Will try to locate the reference. Seems to me it was about 1912 and called a Delco system. Never seen one except in a book. Now to find that book. Very interesting your comments on AW. One of the stories I heard told of a fantastic estate up in Maine where he held wild parties with very loud music that could be heard for miles as AW had a powerful speaker system long before they were common.   Robert Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 11:10 pm:        Here's the Elto part a gentleman was kind enough to give me...   richarddurgee Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 12:11 am:        Robert That reminds me that I have in storage for yrs, an Elto inboard engine, I'll get it out and see if it has this ignition ?? Thats an excellent close up photo !   bill schaller Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 10:28 pm:        I need a 3 cylinder atwater kent distributor cap. This might work to make one. http://www.5bears.com/casting.htm   Robert Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 01:45 am:        Bill, I have a spare three cylinder cap that is a little rough from lying in the bottom of a boat for some decades. Polished up a bit it would probably make an excellent pattern. When you're ready to start let me know and I will send it along...in exchange for one of the new ones ;-) I'll post a few photos tomorrow.   paulgray Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 09:01 pm:        Anyone have a spare 4 cylinder unisparker distributor (no cap needed)? Harry needs one for the Watkins. Have fodder to trade or buy.   Robert Posted on Friday, April 09, 2004 - 01:00 pm:        Here's a nice photo of the Type K mechhanism: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2470844860&indexURL=4&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting   James Crow Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 11:37 pm:        I have a type B unisparker. Anyone know how to hook it up???   Bill Dickerson Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 01:56 pm:        Greetings, I've been looking for info on Atwater Kent ignition. I have a complete box marked "Atwater Kent System-Type-K", another nearly complete and yet another box marked only "Atwater Kent Mfg. Wks. Phila. PA" and it uses a key (don't have) and has a large lever on it. The lever is marked "Off On" and there is a pushbutton marked "Start". I have NO clue as to what any of that means. I simply like them. I'd LOVE to get a proper wiring diagram and wonder - could either be used to spark one of my antique single cylinder engines? Some I run on a "buzz coil" and spark plug, others use a simply coil and ignitor system. ANY help on wiring diagrams, original applications, etc. much appreciated!   Richard Day Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 09:05 pm:        There is a wiring diagram in the Palmer Handbook that Andrew sells. Better read my note above as these coils realy can bite. Don't try to use the coils with any other system than the AW distributor as you will probably ruin an other wise very good and hard to find coil. Pay attention to the polarity and wiring diagram. You can test the coil by wiring it up to a 6 volt battery and arranging a spark gap between the high voltage ouput and ground. Connect the negative of the coil and battery to the ground post. Switch "ON" Then momentarily hit the "Start" button and you should get a spark as much as two inches long on some coils. Start out with say a half inch gap and increase it but don't over due it as you can cause the coil to flash over inside and ruin it.   jim mcgovern Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 04:05 pm:        hello - can anyone help me with an atwater kent ignition coil? how can i tell if it is functioning properly? what resistance should i have over the primary & secondary circuits? the coil in question is from a elto ruddertwin. the points etc all look good, and the machine fires weakly once or twice, but will not run. any help would be greatly appreciated.   pat New member Username: pat Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 06:56 am:        looking for coil diagram for a c-ruddertwin with a atwater-kent i broke a spark plug lead took the coil apart the wires to batt, timer where broken thanks pat   Mike in P.S. Visitor Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 01:59 pm:        Can anyone please tell me what this vintage Atwater Kent distributor was for? Thanks for any info. Mike. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4650737054& sspagename=STRK}   RichardDurgee Senior Member Username: richarddurgee Post Number: 1148 Registered: 11-2001 Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 01:00 pm:        1912-15 would be a safe guess! These timers / distributors reguire their own matching coil, the K-2 turns only clockwise, the H type can be set up to turn in either direction. The unit on ebay is a magneto replacement for automobiles- could have been used on a marine engine- is was an aftermarket kit !   Robert B. Price Senior Member Username: rbprice Post Number: 206 Registered: 11-2001 Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 10:05 pm:        Hello folks - I have a two cylinder CADY with an Atwater-Kent timer that got smashed during a trip on a trailer. I managed to save most of the timer but the cover was missing some pieces. I have created a 3D solid model of the exterior of the cover and am working on the insdie contours as time permits. My intentions are to have a reproduction of the cover made from the 3d model using one of the rapid prototyping processes that create a solid part from liquid polymers. Once that is done, addtional parts could be cast using the silcone rubber mold and epoxy resin techniques. The cast parts would then need to be machined so that the brass contacts could be inserted. Attached is a PDF file of what I have so far. Your comments and suggestions are earnestly solicited. Atwater-Kent distributor cap A-K CAP Model (1).pdf (71.1 k)   Keith Billet Senior Member Username: keith Post Number: 114 Registered: 02-2002 Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:09 am:        Looking good cap Bob, I'm looking for a Atwater-Kent Type B Coil. Any help out there? The picture represents the distributor I am working with.   J.B. Castagnos Senior Member Username: jb_castagnos Post Number: 144 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 10:18 pm:        Does anyone have an explanation of the A-K system, from what I see it looks like the latch is a hammer and closes the points by momentum. Whats special about the coil, is it the resistance? Would it be possible to use the distributor to control a Bosch relay, with the points of the relay firing a coil?   RichardDurgee Senior Member Username: richarddurgee Post Number: 1159 Registered: 11-2001 Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:55 pm:        JB This is the best I could find in my stuff !   J.B. Castagnos Senior Member Username: jb_castagnos Post Number: 145 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 08:17 am:        Thanks Richard, I had an idea how it worked, didn't know the details.   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 341 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 07:47 am:        A photo that may help those attempting to use the AW system. It is really an excellent system for use at shows as the battery consumption is trivial and none when the system is at rest.   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 342 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 08:02 am:        I seem to have lost the comments attached to the photos. A is a 2 cylinder cap for either a two sroke or four stroke firing at 180 degrees. B is a 2 cylinder cap for a four stroke firing at 90 degrees. C. is a three cylinder cap for either a two or four stroke. I don't have a 4 or 6 cylinder cap but they look essentially the same. One must keep in mind that the distributor shaft rotation has to mate with the engine. I do not know if AW ever made a distributor for a two stoke which permitted direct reversing. Would be interested in finding out. My experience with the push button for starting goes back to a 1909 Buick Touring I owned back in 1946. If I choked the engine just as I shut down the engine would almost always start with one "Tickle". A good friend with a Palmer NR-2 rarely has to pull the engine over to start. Just prime and "Tickle"   Keith Billet Senior Member Username: keith Post Number: 115 Registered: 02-2002 Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 08:13 am:        Richard Day or Richard Durgee The above info applies to a Type H or K-2. Do either of you have any info on Type B?   RichardDurgee Senior Member Username: richarddurgee Post Number: 1163 Registered: 11-2001 Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 01:55 pm:        Keith What does the tag on the B timer say, I can't read it ?   Richard A. Day Jr. Senior Member Username: richardday Post Number: 344 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 07:02 pm: